Dial up changes

[Oceola]

Most of the folks in Maryland using dial-up received letters from Verizon as to access number changes. Since Verizon has been somewhat uncooperative in support of Linux it might be good to keep tabs on this here as far as what numbers are working and any DNS Server numbers which seem to function.

I looked for some support on the web site as per the letter's suggestion but there was none.

Calling Verizon Tech support, they seem to have added an "Other Operating Systems" mention in the robot voice choices but it goes to someone who doesn't know other operating systems and doesn't know ifnthe DNS server numbers are changing.

I tried 5 of the local numbers the online robot picked, all went through but with an unfamiliar initial beep, a pause, then the computer tones. In some cases I heard a distant pinging but with loads of static in the line. None would allow me on line with the current DNS server numbers. When I queried the Verizon Tech about this she told me all were under constructions and none would be available until after the fifteenth when the current number I use no longer grants access. This strikes me as working without a net, not being able to pretest and work out the bugs.

There's no support or help for FIOS or DSL or I'd use one or the other. DSL has workarounds but the software router is one way blocking so once something's in there's no way to stop the out unless you use another software firewall. FIOS is unsupported for Linux completely and parts of the package for MAC as well.

Any comments or suggestions or disagreements would be welcomed. Might be nice to have this stuff ironed out befoer the Ides of December.

[parma1]

There's no support or help for FIOS or DSL

Hmmm. That doesn't sound right. I know of several people using Verizon DSL with Ubuntu, and having no problems.

Also this site

http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/node/1875

seems to indicate the same for FIOS.

-J.

[Oceola]

You took the remark out of context. Verizon Tech support will offer no help whatsoever for Linux. For Dial-up, DSL or for FIOS. I've seen the third party workarounds and you have to be fairly savvy in order to make them happen plus the expense is over several hundred dollars for an additional router on the client end. Add the couple of hundred more for the FIOS service and each individual computer hookup. It also is a non reversible commitment. Once you commit to FIOS you cannot get your copper pair back. I know it seems retarded to go on when things like wireless exist but wireless is unsafe and insecure in my area.

FIOS also requires some form of compatible Microsoft software which Verizon needs to place on your system. I spoke with the installation engineers when they were installing the systems and they had no issues, but getting assistance from marketing/tech support people who do not have the engineering experience is or at least seems impossible. It also appears they have been told not to help Linux systems. There's an option with the phone robot for help "For other operating system" but it sends you to the same tech support personnel who do not support Linux.

Your magazine link didn't work properly at first but eventually I got through. I went through the cacophony of responses beneath and it's the same confusion I see in all of the "suggested" attempts or "it works without effort" troll remarks. Mostly the Northeast US has access to tech support personnel who are in their region and not working from a script in a distant land. It may also be because of system purchases by Verizon in one area works better with being compatible to other systems than some others due to remaining personnel who haven't been dumped yet. Bell Atlantic was my previous provider and there was never an issue as far as DNS information, PPP configuration or anything else. Most Linux systems use the same connection values outside of specific hardware issues and these are no longer provided willingly. The FCC will not help either as they seem to be part of either Microsoft or Verizon, haven't figured out who owns who there yet.

[ChuckFrain]

I really cannot comment on the dialup aspect of Verizon as I have never used that.

However with Verizon DSL and FIOS I have not had any issues. I put a WRT54G running DD-WRT on the front of both of these connections just fine. I have FIOS at home and relatives have DSL. I've also used an IPCop box on the connections for testing purposes, again without any issue.

FIOS directly to the PC should only need a PPPoE client on the software side as that is how I configure the routers. So if you use a PPPoE package from Ubuntu it should, in theory, work for the desktop. The question becomes why would you not put a router/firewall between you and the internet? Verizon provided a D-Link router during the install of my FIOS.

[Oceola]

Do not take this as condescending or arrogant but most folks seem to miss the simplicity of what I'm looking for here. Simply put the Primary and Secondary DNS to place in pppconfig or in "Network." Each Verizon access telephone number, which is changing after December 15th, has what appears to be committed Primary and Secondary DNS xxx.xx.0.xxx and xxx.xx.1.xxx. It's a simple thing in a static modem setup. Two numbers is all I've been requesting and they are not available, or at least not provided to the scripted tech support personnel. At the same time there's no access if the DNS numbers are wrong for that telephone number, no information exchange of your password or account information if I'm on target with this..

@Chuck - Thanks for the DSL and FIOS input but FIOS leaves you a prisoner of Verizon and is not reversible, so if you discontinue (with ISPs unreasonable termination penalties) you're left without a telephone or internet unless you get a wireless uplink or some other provider takes over the copper network in your area and runs new wire to your location (There's also the question if they will cooperate at that time with Linux). This is without the normal service fees, which double on a monthly basis, the cost of the added hardware and my illiterate attempts at making it work without someone leading me by the nose or doing it for me, consider me a twit. There's also the installation fees per computer. They will hook up one computer as part of the initial deal but each additional one has a separate fee. $100 at last review, can't leave the wife by the wayside. Also I don't need to download movies or Pay to watch commercial television, which seems somewhat lacking in common sense and a grand time wasting scenario.
DSL would be OK if I could have a two-way Firewall on a hardware router on the Linux system and not a Windows one-way firewall only software router provided by the ISP. DSL looked the easier method until the issue of ISP access and single direction firewall came into play. Adding a second router was suggested but seems more of the same "work around" complications plus additional costs which should be unnecessary. .

I've been using Linux without crutches or Windows for a couple of years now from Hoary through Gutsy. Each upgrade the internet access system has gotten better and easier. With the EU Courts making the MS server information available to other Operating systems I figured it wouldn't be too long before a dedicated Linux access was available in the US as well. I don't use Webb TV or radio, play net games,watch movies or listen to music on the computer, I removed all the Realmedia and Shockwave software. It's a simple email and search tool.

In any case, dial-up with two phone lines, complete, costs me about $80 a month with no extra expenses or equipment replacement . I don't have cable TV nor do I want it.

[Oceola]

None of the 5 offered phone numbers in the area accept any transfer as of yet. Tried them all seperately in pppconfig using the same primary and secondary server number .
Dec 8. in the early a.m., five attempts.

[parma1]

DSL would be OK if I could have a two-way Firewall on a hardware router on the Linux system and not a Windows one-way firewall only software router provided by the ISP. DSL looked the easier method until the issue of ISP access and single direction firewall came into play. Adding a second router was suggested but seems more of the same "work around" complications plus additional costs which should be unnecessary. .

Hold on a second. If a hardware firewall is your concern, why not buy an inexpensive router at WalMart (~$35), and put that right behind your DSL modem? (That'd also solve your second PC connection.) As you said earlier, you are not asking for the world here; your requirements seem quite modest.

I've set two elderly people up with Ubuntu and Verizon DSL, and the setup is quick, easy and stable. Costs each of them $17/month. $80/month seems way out of line unless you have a lot of long distance charges.

[Oceola]

Thanks for the input, I will find out if the Dynamic setup in Ubuntu works after December 15th, if not I'll be looking for another provider and canceling Verizon or possibly just go offline completely. The rest of Ubuntu software works just fine for me as it is and I will miss the research capability but it may be better to just buy the books and do without all the advertising detritus and spoofed sites which seems to pervade each search,

The second router is one of those work-a-rounds which seems feasible and it would allow me to keep my copper pair, That way I could, if I wanted go to another provider. If I were going to commit to DSL I found I can use my own hardware router with a two way firewall with some ISPs. I necessarily don't want to move to DSL because of some marketing weasel's techno extortion on the part of Verizon by not providing the Primary and Secondary DNS numbers in order to satisfy some backroom deal between Microsoft and Verizon. The modem/router you suggest is a one way software router, easily borked. I've been looking and investigated these possiblities over a year ago when the FIOS setup fell through after Verizon's marketing/technical support people lied about the Microsoft requirements and Linux not working with FIOS and how MS crapware had to be on the computer. I don't buy retort that level one scripted techs are dumb. It's deliberate forced marketing and a form of criminal racketeering.

The $81 a month cost is for two phone lines (separate numbers) and the $25 a month unlimited dial-up. DSL is only cheap right now to get folks to switch, once a sufficient number switch and dial up goes the way of the Dodo it will increase substantially.
If I go offline I'll save about $60 a month and keep one single land line so the telemarketers can annoy the answering machine.

[parma1]

Well, maybe it's me, but I'm still puzzled at your apparent obstacles. The router behind the dsl modem is not a software firewall, and I've never heard of one being breached. (I know, never is a dangerous word, but just the same.)

You could always switch to cable for less than $81/month and enjoy download speeds way in excess of dsl. You can get a Comcast internet only account for around $50/month, I think. The router behind the cable modem works well here also.

And Comcast plays very nicely with Ubuntu.

Also, depending on where you live, other dsl providers are available like Covad, Embarq, and one other whose name escapes me just now.

I just can't see why you seem to be without more than one or two options. Not for that kind of outlay per month.

[Oceola]

@parma1 - There's fewer options locally than you might think. Some of the ISPs represent they are Ubuntu or Linux compatible but are not supporting in anyway. I found several ISPs which are apparently without issue, Covad is one in consideration, and the DSL issue seems to be resolved with a D-Link router.

When I investigated and actually committed to Verizon's DSL they were offering two routers. One required Windows or Microsoft software to be placed on your computer the other was a hardware router. Both had internal fiirewalls but the firewalls were one way. The hardware modem router is no longer offered with only the MS Crapware modem/router being available ,Outbound signals to urls not part of your operations when on line can be for a number of reasons, from simple signaling your presence on line to Bug reports, loggers or spyware shipping out your personal information. The other part of the issue is some of the providers want to put their crapware on your system and are not flexible enough to allow by-pass and just provide values and IP numbers for access by dial up. I do have solutions and most of the folks here and at other sites have been very helpful. Part of the issue is I'm getting tired of the Microsoft big corporate business politics and other issues which impede a decent uncomplicated internet access. Like you noted my needs are simple.

Comcast is a no go in my area as they restrict Point to Point, which seems to be the next great internet issue, and have a less than stellar record. Everyone I know who has Comcast says to stay away from them due to their poor service and failure to support Linux plus they limit downloads and this is a recent condition which they are not rectifying. Maybe it's an area by area thing like with Verizon. Folks in Vermont have no problems hooking up Linux to Verizon FIOS and but here FIOS is difficult due to Verizon's lack of cooperation, tech support and cost, plus they state they have to put the MS crapware on your system or you are on your own much like Chuck Frain's setup, a little too complicated for the average user. I can't even begin to talk to my wife about the preference settings for her screensaver with out her eyes going blank, imagine what it would be like to explain something more complicated, all folks don't want to fiddle with things preferring to keep them simple. Even the Mac support service is limited and the premium packages are restricted to Microsoft users only. Clearly a restraint of trade and racketeering issue. Then there's the little issue of reversion to another provider after a FIOS installation, not available. Verizon will not replace the copper pair so you can change to DSL or other system. It would almost be less costly to run dedicated ISDN lines than to get another pair installed from another provider.

All this is moot as of tomorrow or the day after when I change the phone number, as directed in a recent mailing, and maybe get on line without a great deal of problems, unlikely at this point. Which was the initial point of the post, now wandered off into the world of options.

Maybe I'm just tired after 30 some years using a computer and have lost faith in the technology and some of those who promote it as the "be all, end all."