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Thread: Is Wine hurting Linux Games dramatically ?

  1. #1
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    Is Wine hurting Linux Games dramatically ?

    I am just a new user and I see, through this forum, that almost 80% of the thread relating a game on Linux involve a Windows game + Wine.

    I am afraid that this situation will get worse in the future, as developers or publishers won't take a look on Linux or alternative technologies (like OpenGL, SDL)

    There are some good native Linux games (ColdWar, X2, Ankh...) but Linux users don't seem interested.

    However, when a commercial windows game come with a free Linux client, it seems to hit the Linux mass (Doom 3, Quake 4...)

    I don't know why Linux users prefer paying for Windows games and prefer playing it on Linux with Wine

    I think it hurts Linux a lot. It is like PS3 owners buying exclusively Xbox 360 games and emulate them on their console : in the end, developpers or publishers will end their support for PS3 and they will focus on Xbox 360....

  2. #2
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    Re: Is Wine hurting Linx Games dramatically ?

    Um, how do you that they aren't interested in those games?

    And no, wine isn't hurting games. If at all, it's helping to bring people over to Linux - everything is great except games. And it's either dual-booting with Windows or using Wine here.

  3. #3
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    Re: Is Wine hurting Linx Games dramatically ?

    Quote Originally Posted by duglambier View Post
    I am afraid that this situation will get worse in the future, as developers or publishers won't take a look on Linux or alternative technologies (like OpenGL, SDL)
    Except that there are lots of reasons for developers to look at OpenGL anyway - the PS3 is one of them. The general apathy of people about DirectX10 and Vista is another.

    However, when a commercial windows game come with a free Linux client, it seems to hit the Linux mass (Doom 3, Quake 4...)

    I don't know why Linux users prefer paying for Windows games and prefer playing it on Linux with Wine
    Maybe it has something to do with the amount of money and time invested in the creation of such games? (And, indeed, the amount of marketing.)

    I think it hurts Linux a lot. It is like PS3 owners buying exclusively Xbox 360 games and emulate them on their console : in the end, developpers or publishers will end their support for PS3 and they will focus on Xbox 360....
    Except that this doesn't happen for a good reason: XBox360s and PS3s both have a reasonable market share, and both have commercial games for them, with marketing and games review magazines and stuff.

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    Re: Is Wine hurting Linx Games dramatically ?

    Quote Originally Posted by duglambier View Post
    I don't know why Linux users prefer paying for Windows games and prefer playing it on Linux with Wine
    ....
    Actually, since I have switched exclusively to linux over a year and a half ago, I have not bought one game that is not linux native. My gaming purchases have been neverwinter nights and Enemy territory: Quake Wars. However, since I was a windows gamer for so long, I use wine to run those games that I was playing, to ease my transition into linux....basically, I used it to run WoW (but Im currently letting my subscription run out).

    The fact of the matter is, we want all games to run natively on linux. However, with somewhere near 1% of the total market share, we know that a lot of games wont get native clients. Support the ones that do, but know that you can usually run non-linux games anyway if you feel you need to. In fact, the EA on mac initiative was nothing more that EA games running on cider (macs version of cedega). Heck, if they work, they work, doesnt really matter how.

    I dont agree with the ps3/xbox arguement. The difference is that if your a ps3 player, and you want to play halo, you either cant, or have to buy an xbox. As linux users, we can say, alright, lets run that through wine so we can play too. Thats actually pretty cool.

    So, linux users dont "prefer" to game with wine, we prefer native. But wine is used to bludgeon people half to death who say linux isnt for gaming.

  5. #5
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    Re: Is Wine hurting Linx Games dramatically ?

    I am just a new user and I see, through this forum, that almost 80% of the thread relating a game on Linux involve a Windows game + Wine.

    I am afraid that this situation will get worse in the future, as developers or publishers won't take a look on Linux or alternative technologies (like OpenGL, SDL)
    Well first of, yes many games are running thru wine, for ex. World of Warcraft, without a doubt the biggest game (commercially), Blizzard even looked at a Linux client, there even was one until late beta stages and the only reason they didn't go with it is the lack of standards making it unsupportable unless they start to dictate what distributions you can use ect.
    So there Linux went back a few users since they wanted WoW
    Then wine started working almost flawless (with some tweaks) running WoW on linux and poff ALOT of people went back to linux, some even tried it for the first time, by making it possible to play the same games as on Windows more users will look over the fence and take a look at the free world.


    As for alternative technology well MS is probably going to get hit by one or two more syndication lawsuites in the E.U. both for Vistas security programs and for DX10 and in that shows the weakness that gives OpenGL ect the edge in the long run, Multiplatform, if you design a game in SDL and OpenGL, you can port that game to almost any know platform without very much troubble.


    There are some good native Linux games (ColdWar, X2, Ankh...) but Linux users don't seem interested.

    However, when a commercial windows game come with a free Linux client, it seems to hit the Linux mass (Doom 3, Quake 4...)
    Doom3, Quake 4 ect. is a native games, they run with their own linux run files, the reason they ain't sold on Linux CD's ect is the same fact that WoW linux client never made it past beta, it's not possible to garantie that it works on every dist. there for unsupportable for a big game like that.

    Marketing and so on is a big part of why people want to buy "That" game and just because they are good games doesn't mean they appeal to the masses.


    I don't know why Linux users prefer paying for Windows games and prefer playing it on Linux with Wine

    I think it hurts Linux a lot. It is like PS3 owners buying exclusively Xbox 360 games and emulate them on their console : in the end, developpers or publishers will end their support for PS3 and they will focus on Xbox 360....
    Do you really think Sony would care is people only bought 360games but everyone played them on their PS3??
    Nope, they still get people to play their console, what they would do that Linux is just starting to do but not yet so much as it should is that they would go to the developers and say, "Hey, might wanna look over your marketing, you are developing för Xbox but more and more people are playing them on PS3. could be a good thing to look over if you really are gaining anything from that or if there is something the users are thinking that you are missing?"

  6. #6
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    Re: Is Wine hurting Linx Games dramatically ?

    no, because running games with wine honestly sucks. I have only gotten one game to work with wine (guild wars) and even that is laggy and unplayable in times of high action. other games that i wish i could be playing, tf2, portal, half life mods and all that dont work, or at least dont work unless you have the correct settings of registry keys, hacks, work arounds, compability modes, etc.

    any intelligent game developer knows that wine is not the solution to porting their games to linux
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    Re: Is Wine hurting Linx Games dramatically ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Polygon View Post
    no, because running games with wine honestly sucks. I have only gotten one game to work with wine (guild wars) and even that is laggy and unplayable in times of high action. other games that i wish i could be playing, tf2, portal, half life mods and all that dont work, or at least dont work unless you have the correct settings of registry keys, hacks, work arounds, compability modes, etc.

    any intelligent game developer knows that wine is not the solution to porting their games to linux
    I've played HL2, CS:S, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, Fallout, Fallout2, Baldur's Gate 1+2+ all exp, ect on wine without problems, but I agree that devs won't use wine as a development point but wine can get more users to switch to Linux and the more people that use Linux = more customers that want Linux natives = bigger chance that developers start seeing a chance to acctually make money by doing native Linux clients.

    The only real problem right now is the fact that Linux doesn't have the standardization across distributions to ensure that if you make a linux client work on one dist. it will work the same on all others.

  8. #8
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    Re: Is Wine hurting Linx Games dramatically ?

    Something quick to point out: the three "linux native" games that the original poster pointed out are _not_ gnu/linux native. All three of them (Cold War, X2, and Ankh2) were _ported_ to gnu/linux, and only after a significant amount of time had already passed since their windows release. It is very natural that gnu/linux gamers do not want to pay for games perceived as old, i.e., games that have been released months/years ago.

    On the other hand, Doom, Quake, UT, etc have their gnu/linux-native executables _at the same time_ as their windows ones. Of course their creators make much more money selling them to gnu/linux gamers than those who only _allow_ their game to be _ported_ as an afterthought.

    NB: I'm talking about the general (i.e. dumb) consumer here. I, personally, would much rather obtain an interesting game with good gameplay than a shiny new one with fancy graphics and all that. But I know very well that I am in the minority.

  9. #9
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    Re: Is Wine hurting Linx Games dramatically ?

    I think a lot of people who use Wine are like myself; current Windows users who really want to switch fully to Linux, but already have a large library of Windows games that will become coasters if we get rid of Windows. In order to complete the switch to Linux, those games must run in Linux somehow, otherwise we end up sticking with Windows or dual-booting. That's where Wine comes in. Although it can't run everything, and it doesn't really run anything absolutely perfectly, it allows us to get some of our Windows library up and running in Linux.

    As for the argument that it will hurt development of games on Linux, yes, it will likely limit the development of native games in the short term, but if "Games for Windows" work on Linux through Wine, then there is really no reason for gamers to use Windows anymore. More people will be able to make the switch to Linux and as Linux gets more users, the developers will start to make more "Games for Linux", or better yet, "Games for Any OS".

    We are already seeing many developers sit up and take notice of Linux, with Id making yet another successful AAA cross-platform game in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, Eve Online being ported in a semi-native manner and Valve hiring Linux developers. With the amount of bad blood MS is developing between Vista and DX10 and the imminent release of OpenGL 3.0, I think we will start to see the first rumblings of true cross-platform games in the next few years. Microsoft has already realized this, which is why they started the whole "Games for Windows" initiative and are extending their faux "olive branches" to the Linux community.
    Last edited by cogadh; November 7th, 2007 at 06:33 PM.

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    Re: Is Wine hurting Linux Games dramatically ?

    Quote Originally Posted by duglambier View Post
    I am just a new user and I see, through this forum, that almost 80% of the thread relating a game on Linux involve a Windows game + Wine.

    I am afraid that this situation will get worse in the future, as developers or publishers won't take a look on Linux or alternative technologies (like OpenGL, SDL)

    There are some good native Linux games (ColdWar, X2, Ankh...) but Linux users don't seem interested.

    However, when a commercial windows game come with a free Linux client, it seems to hit the Linux mass (Doom 3, Quake 4...)

    I don't know why Linux users prefer paying for Windows games and prefer playing it on Linux with Wine

    I think it hurts Linux a lot. It is like PS3 owners buying exclusively Xbox 360 games and emulate them on their console : in the end, developpers or publishers will end their support for PS3 and they will focus on Xbox 360....
    NO.

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