Why I love/hate Perl

[scruff]

I never said that. I say: if you beginner programmer, you might be better off to learn basics of programming in Python, and after learning to crawl, learn that other programming language. In experience of many (including our unscientific poll), that is more effective way to learn programming that ie. start with C++ - but how is beginner going to know that is someone experiences will not challenge her assumption that C++ is the best language for beginner to learn basics?

BTW why we discuss Python here?

Apologies. Like I said, I wasn't pointing any fingers. I see an absolute ton of ppl in this forum trying to sway people away from whatever language they are learning and originally posting about.

I can see where there are valid reasons to do so, but I also read plenty of "my language is best" type responses. Please don't take any personal offense to my response - none was intended

[ruy_lopez]

I see an absolute ton of ppl in this forum trying to sway people away from whatever language they are learning and originally posting about

I agree. I don't see how hijacking people's threads, helps beginners learn anything.

[scruff]

umm, it IS more ... it is a reference to a BLESSED hash!

Hahaha! Good point slavik

[pmasiar]

I agree. I don't see how hijacking people's threads, helps beginners learn anything.

You exactly missed my point.

If goal of poster is to learn programming, but by lack of information thinks that say APL is the best language to start, in your opinion should I suggest best APL book, or challenge false information about APL and suggest better language ofr a beginner to learn programming?

Even Perl would be better than APL!

Looking beyond narrow-minded question of the poster and trying to solve whole problem, not just that single bug, is what helps beginner more. IMHO of course, YMMV.

I plan to do it again, and if you want to challenge it every time, you may as well start new thread about it, which I link to each of my suggestions so we don't have to argue same issue every time.

[ruy_lopez]

You exactly missed my point

The last time I checked, I was responding to scruff, not you. Are you okay? Seriously. You are assuming everything everyone says is about you?

It takes more than one person to hijack a thread.

[slavik]

I never said that. I say: if you beginner programmer, you might be better off to learn basics of programming in Python, and after learning to crawl, learn that other programming language. In experience of many (including our unscientific poll), that is more effective way to learn programming that ie. start with C++ - but how is beginner going to know that is someone experiences will not challenge her assumption that C++ is the best language for beginner to learn basics?

BTW why we discuss Python here?

You push Python, I push Perl (and C). You say that using a highlevel level like Perl/Python is best for beginners, I say that a lower level language is better.

You either start at the top and then drop the bottom because there is no GC and you don't know how pointers work, or you start at the bottom and then like the top because there is GC and you don't have to deal with the pointers.

BASIC = Beginner's All Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code. it has beginner in the name, yet even the creators said that it was a crappy language for beginners ...

I'd rather as a computer scientist have a situation where there are 10 people who can write good code in C/Python/Perl/whatever else than if there were 100 people who could write any code in Python and yelling that C is crap because it is not dynamically type and doesn't have GC.

Remember, performance tradeoff for an app might be OK (depending on what it does), but I will never accept a performance system for the entire system.

Beagle is written in C#, Tracker is written in C ... now tell me which has better performance. (as a bonus, guess which one I have)

The reason why I like Perl is that many things that I want to do in C are much easier in Perl. If I can do it easily in C, I do it. If I can't, I look into Perl.

[pmasiar]

The last time I checked, I was responding to scruff, not you. Are you okay? Seriously. You are assuming everything everyone says is about you?

It takes more than one person to hijack a thread.

Well, you agreed with scruff. I responded to your comment. Do you disagree because I said it, or you disagree on substance?

It might be funny but scruff's thread about simplest way to generate XML was solved exactly because I challenged OP's assumptions and suggested completely different solution.

So if I followed your logic, I would not be able to provide that more optimal solution.

BTW I don't like you attacking me personally, instead of commenting on substance. Maybe because you cannot?

Relax, I am not here to get you. I am trying to solve problems, while having reasonable fun.

[pmasiar]

You push Python, I push Perl (and C). You say that using a highlevel level like Perl/Python is best for beginners, I say that a lower level language is better.

You either start at the top and then drop the bottom because there is no GC and you don't know how pointers work, or you start at the bottom and then like the top because there is GC and you don't have to deal with the pointers.

This was discussed to death in other threads, I am not going to start again. Our completely unscientific poll gave victory to high-level languages, with Python winning overall.

I'd rather as a computer scientist have a situation where there are 10 people who can write good code in C/Python/Perl/whatever else than if there were 100 people who could write any code in Python and yelling that C is crap because it is not dynamically type and doesn't have GC....

Remember, performance tradeoff for an app might be OK (depending on what it does), but I will never accept a performance system for the entire system.

Do you have me somewhere on record that I said C is crap? Can you link it? Or you prefer to build a strawman and then tear it to pieces, so it will feel as a victory?

In fact, everywhere I mention Python I suggest C as second language to learn.

I just tell: "avoid Perl if you can"

All these intense emotions, and anti-Perl rants (post #34) are still uncontested. So looks they survived the fury?

[ruy_lopez]

I don't like you attacking me personally, instead of commenting on substance. Maybe because you cannot?

I don't see a lot of substance. I see a lot of ideology. On both sides. Ideological arguments never have any ending. They are a waste of time. I prefer to occupy myself with practical considerations.

[pmasiar]

I prefer to occupy myself with practical considerations

Me too.

OK at least we agree that best way to get practical solutions is to ask beginners about what they assume, to help them get better solution than simply answering the misplaced question they asked originally.