Why to love/hate Python

[pmasiar]

To avoid shifting threads off-topic by responding to relative merits of Python (which is my preferred language), I decided to start this thread. If we can have sticky about such personal preference as IDE is, why not this, right? Selecting proper language seems to me deeper question.

Bunch of links to get context why I love Python:

• Freedom languages vs. safety languages comparing languages in what is central: power and productivity of individual programmer, or checkpoint to secure communication between modules.
• Why I love Python (zip) - slides by famous Java/C++ expert Bruce Eckel, author of Thinking in... series
• "Readability counts". In other languages, (yes, Perl, I am looking at you! ) it is very hard to read code of people who use different coding standards. By making indent rules part of the standard (and btw it is normal coding practices, as you would do anyway), code of all people becomes readable. See also Myths about Indentation and howEric Raymond got scared by it at first, but "Python's use of whitespace stopped feeling unnatural after about twenty minutes" and now he prefers Python over Perl for any code above 100 lines.
• Edit: Please do not whine about tabs and spaces. Any decent editor can convert tabs to 4 spaces for you, and if it cannot, it is good enough reason to dump it and use real editor which can. It was unusual for me to, but after couple of minutes, it is normal, and no problem at all.
• People who need to code only occasionally prefer Python, because it is forgiving and simple to remember. And because non-professionals are 90% of the market, Python is not hype, but language for next 100 years
• Bruce Eckel explains dynamic (latent) typing, also in artima blog, how to argue about it, and why he is over with static typing. Bruce's view about Python
  

This hopes be discussion on facts, not flamewar. So I try my best, but cannot be hold responsible for others. It is also possible that this will earn me ban. We will see.

[pmasiar]

(In response from post about C
[C/Java has more resources than Python online]
One of the reasons (at least for python and for me) might be that I needed substantially less resources to get started with Python than with Java. Java is just so byzantine complicated. My "Java in a nutshell, 1.3" has 646 pages of standard format, "Python pocket reference" (2.4) has 148 pages, and pages are half the size. You need many more books to get reasonable comprehension of Java than for Python.

[AntiRush]

Originally Posted by pmasiar My "Java in a nutshell, 1.3" has 646 pages of standard format, "Python pocket reference" (2.4) has 148 pages, and pages are half the size.

To be fair you cannot compare those two books. Java in a Nutshell is a book meant to teach Java and goes into a lot of depth. Python Pocket reference is just that - a reference not meant to teach but to be used as a resource.

In fact, Python in a Nutshell has 654 pages.

Don't get me wrong, I use both python and java quite often and like bits of both languages. It's just not a fair comparison.

[pmasiar]

Originally Posted by AntiRush Java in a Nutshell is a book meant to teach Java and goes into a lot of depth.

My copy is "desktop quick reference", and has very little of explanation: just mentions classes and methods, one per line. Maybe you confuse it with some kind of much thicker books, like Java Bible, Shipping Weight: 3.8 pounds?

To be fair, I never seen any "pocket size" reference book for java.

P-N book has much more detailed info that J-N (I just opened in via Safari), with details and comments, multiple lines per item. Big part of P-N is just reprint of standard docs, thats why I like "pocket" book more, because lot of thought went in to compressing the info, make it more succinct, without withholding important parts.

[cl333r]

Originally Posted by pmasiar (In response from post about C [C/Java has more resources than Python online] One of the reasons (at least for python and for me) might be that I needed substantially less resources to get started with Python than with Java. Java is just so byzantine complicated. My "Java in a nutshell, 1.3" has 646 pages of standard format, "Python pocket reference" (2.4) has 148 pages, and pages are half the size. You need many more books to get reasonable comprehension of Java than for Python.

I found a book on Python of only 74 pages, thus Python has become once again better! In fact there's a tutorial about Python on the web - it is about 2 pages, so.. since the Java book has 646 pages / 2 python pages = Python is 323 times better than Java! Can you imagine that?? It is so cool! I'm once again fascinated about Python!
Besides, I just love the fact that it's the ideal language for writing all kinds programs and libraries (really!). Linus is considering Python for the 3.0 Linux kernel implementation, because he finally got to realize that speed doesn't matter (in fact C programs are much slower and take longer to startup and consume more memory), what matters is portability and productivity.
I also love that Python has built-in cross-platform support for fast graphics with antialiasing, true-type fonts, HD audio and video and most robust support for concurrency and networking. So unlike other languages you don't have to google for compatible libraries, they're already all there waiting for you!
The potential of Python is immense! That's why I love it.

[LaRoza]

Originally Posted by cl333r I found a book on Python of only 74 pages, thus Python has become once again better! In fact there's a tutorial about Python on the web - it is about 2 pages, so.. since the Java book has 646 pages / 2 python pages = Python is 343 times better than Java! Can you imagine that?? It is so cool! I'm once again fascinated about Python! Besides, I just love the fact that it's the ideal language for writing all kinds programs and libraries (really!). Linus is considering Python for the 3.0 Linux kernel implementation, because he finally got to realize that speed doesn't matter (in fact C programs are much slower and take longer to startup and consume more memory), what matters is portability and productivity. I also love that Python has built-in cross-platform support for fast graphics with antialiasing, true-type fonts, HD audio and video and most robust support for concurrency and networking. So unlike other languages you don't have to google for compatible libraries, they're already all there waiting for you! The potential of Python is immense! That's why I love it.

I'm not sure what is post is about. Is it sarcasm, ignorance, or a joke?

No one claims Python is suitable for all things (for instance, Python and many of its modules are written in C)

[curvedinfinity]

I really love python from the language point of view. Its clean, lovely to write, and has a million well made libraries.

My big gripe with it is that its distribution template is not friendly to windows users. -- Its hard to distribute a Python app to Windows because you first have to get users to install Python. The extra step isn't a big deal for developers, but its a killer for the "basic" end user.

Sure, you can embed python in a compiled app, but that defeats the purpose of using an interpreted language.

... Considering all of that, I use Python in every application I make for myself and don't want to distribute. Its simply the best language from a productivity point of view.

[jimi_hendrix]

i find i actually code worse in python than a more C like language...but i realize how easy it is to learn and its grate for beginners

[LaRoza]

Originally Posted by curvedinfinity I really love python from the language point of view. Its clean, lovely to write, and has a million well made libraries. My big gripe with it is that its distribution template is not friendly to windows users. -- Its hard to distribute a Python app to Windows because you first have to get users to install Python. The extra step isn't a big deal for developers, but its a killer for the "basic" end user. Sure, you can embed python in a compiled app, but that defeats the purpose of using an interpreted language. ... Considering all of that, I use Python in every application I make for myself and don't want to distribute. Its simply the best language from a productivity point of view.

You can bundle the installer with it. Also, you can easily distribute Python apps in Linux (which is the platform that matters).

Also, installing ActivePython is very familiar to Windows users (although it would be a pain from a Linux point of view, all that clicking...)

[curvedinfinity]

Originally Posted by LaRoza ...in Linux (which is the platform that matters).

That's pretty zealous, don't you think? Linux is gaining market share, but the success hasn't come from exclaiming to everyone that they had it wrong all along. Linux's success has come from the idea that everyone, regardless of platform, ideology, race, or social status is important. 99.9% of the world only views technology as a means to an end, not something important in itself, like our subculture does. Thus, in terms of supporting these people, its important to make processes as simple and short as possible.

But I'll tell you what, in terms of Linux, I completely agree that Python apps are even easier to deal with than compiled apps.