Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 122

Thread: There is a scary discussion on the Ubuntu Developers mail list.

  1. #41
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Beans
    7,032
    Distro
    Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala

    Re: There is a scary discussion on the Ubuntu Developers mail list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Watts View Post
    There are a *lot* of folks in the Linux community that feel that Ubuntu has already gone too far in regards to making Linux idiot proof.

    All I can say on the subject is that there are plenty of Linux flavors out there, and if as a Linux user you are unhappy with the direction your particular Linux flavor is going, it's not at all difficult to switch to another distro that better suits your needs and personal beliefs about the way you want your OS to treat you.

    I personally have Ubuntu installed on the family PC because it is easy to use and user friendly, and use Archlinux on my personal PC.
    Whenever I hear that charge, it almost always boils down to two (and possibly three) things:
    1) Automatix. For some reason, people think it is somehow built-in to Ubuntu. It's not. And it's not idiot proof.
    2) Using "sudo" by default. This is just plain ignorance. The arguments for and against it belong in the "recurring discussions" sub-forum, so I'll leave at it this: many power users on other distros disable the root account and use sudo.

    The optional third part is the inclusion of the restricted modules in the installation CD. To me, that's more a matter of convenience than idiot-proofing.

    Long-story short: I haven't seen a single good argument so far for the contention that Ubuntu sacrifices functionality for the sake of coddling the newcomers.
    I am aware of all internet traditions. | Getting the best help | Text formatting codes | My last.fm profile
    Should I PM support questions? NO!

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Beans
    443

    Re: There is a scary discussion on the Ubuntu Developers mail list.

    Nothing scary about this discussion, just realistic. People who want Ubuntu to take over the world usually don't think about the inevitable consequences of this ambition - as popularity of an OS increases the average skill-level of the user base decreases. That's just the way of things, and only so much can be achieved by trying to educate the users... It's encouraging that the devs understand it and are being proactive about the dangers/problems that are bound to appear as Ubuntu continues to gain momentum and becomes more mainstream.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    cyberspace
    Beans
    6,198
    Distro
    Ubuntu 11.10 Oneiric Ocelot

    Re: There is a scary discussion on the Ubuntu Developers mail list.

    I see more and more people posting on how they will be glad to just blindly follow along.
    Methinks some used Windows to long and it has made them think its normal to lose freedom for the sake of security.
    I trust Microsoft as far as I could comfortably spit a dead rat

    I'm in my third year at a Lutheran seminary!

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Beans
    443

    Re: There is a scary discussion on the Ubuntu Developers mail list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    I see more and more people posting on how they will be glad to just blindly follow along.
    Methinks some used Windows to long and it has made them think its normal to lose freedom for the sake of security.
    I don't think your characterization of people who disagree with your description of the discussion as "scary" is fair or, for that matter, friendly. It also doesn't seem that you have actually tried to listen to the arguments they rise, much less to answer them with anything resembling a counter-argument.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Beans
    7,032
    Distro
    Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala

    Re: There is a scary discussion on the Ubuntu Developers mail list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    I see more and more people posting on how they will be glad to just blindly follow along.
    Methinks some used Windows to long and it has made them think its normal to lose freedom for the sake of security.
    Now see that's just flamebait. If you disagree with my position, you are more than free to say why, and I will listen. Don't call me a "blind follower" though.
    I am aware of all internet traditions. | Getting the best help | Text formatting codes | My last.fm profile
    Should I PM support questions? NO!

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Porirua, New Zealand
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Ubuntu

    Re: There is a scary discussion on the Ubuntu Developers mail list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frak View Post
    A better idea would be to just do like many anti-virus and build up an immunity against the invaders. Then if something goes wrong, we can examine the ruble of the machine and find a solution. Mainly to blacklist the offender. Risk one to save many. Plus all we have to do is enact some recovery measures, Just In Case.

    Thats why we have GPG keys folks. To filter known "good" people, from "bad" people.
    Perhaps we can learn from the developers of anti-spam systems. The last time I checked, Pegasus Mail was able to use "whitelists" and "blacklists" in its message rules to allow and/or block messages from particular senders, and some of the anti-spam products I've checked out have used similar techniques, combined with a form of "quarantine" system that allows you to safely review material from an unknown source, and also combined with a means to learn to distinguish the good from the bad.
    Forum DOs and DON'Ts
    Never assume that information you find using a search engine is up-to-date.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Beans
    Hidden!

    Re: There is a scary discussion on the Ubuntu Developers mail list.

    Quote Originally Posted by lisati View Post
    Perhaps we can learn from the developers of anti-spam systems. The last time I checked, Pegasus Mail was able to use "whitelists" and "blacklists" in its message rules to allow and/or block messages from particular senders, and some of the anti-spam products I've checked out have used similar techniques, combined with a form of "quarantine" system that allows you to safely review material from an unknown source, and also combined with a means to learn to distinguish the good from the bad.
    Yeah, Just like that.

    I have no idea why I said anti-virus, the only thing to compare to anti-virus is anti-virus

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    cyberspace
    Beans
    6,198
    Distro
    Ubuntu 11.10 Oneiric Ocelot

    Re: There is a scary discussion on the Ubuntu Developers mail list.

    Quote Originally Posted by fwojciec View Post
    I don't think your characterization of people who disagree with your description of the discussion as "scary" is fair or, for that matter, friendly. It also doesn't seem that you have actually tried to listen to the arguments they rise, much less to answer them with anything resembling a counter-argument.
    Maybe thats because I cant believe what I am reading. That any argument I would make is based on simple understanding that freedom is good and limits on that is bad. But maybe I have given to much credit to the fact that people using free software would know the free stands for freedom, not price. That its a personal computer and not a developers computer. The user is the one that should decide what should be allowed to be installed.
    Quote Originally Posted by p_quarles View Post
    Now see that's just flamebait. If you disagree with my position, you are more than free to say why, and I will listen. Don't call me a "blind follower" though.
    I didnt point out who, but since you answered, you yourself must think of yourself as a blind follower. One of the main reasons I love Ubuntu and Linux is the freedom it gives. anything that limits that freedom is bad. Those that have blind faith in developers are letting themselves in for a letdown. Developers are human, they make mistakes.
    Last edited by Kilz; September 30th, 2007 at 06:47 AM.
    I trust Microsoft as far as I could comfortably spit a dead rat

    I'm in my third year at a Lutheran seminary!

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Beans
    143

    Re: There is a scary discussion on the Ubuntu Developers mail list.

    Quote Originally Posted by fireworksshow View Post
    I agree with you're first point, but I personally think that KDE 4.0 coming out in mid cycle is perfect, it gives enaught time to the developers/betatesters to give kubuntu polish and work out the early bugs. I found out that recently the linux marked started to lose some major bugs in they're distro's because of hurrying new released software without proper testing.
    Other distros can extend their release cycles to include and support KDE 4.0 because they are not on a fixed release cycle. Now as it is right now, I also think is good they have more time to "polish" yes but, there is an equally strong argument about jumping out of the gate first and prepared ( botched/broken releases of course only harm themselves ).

    But the point was not really that ( my prose is not that good, english being my second language ) but rather the fact that there are already both advantages but disadvantages to a fixed release cycle, adding more disadvantages and having less features to spend that much time on paranoid foolproof security however would add up to existing "shortcomings".

    I honestly think that developers should appeal to just 3 basic groups of users
    1) Completely hopeless. These people can crash a microwave and send dvd players to blue screen of dead. They need an appliance, not a computer so their apps and OS should look like that. Media centers come to mind.

    2) Proficient users: this users know enough to master a straight forward system like Ubuntu and have enough common sense not to trust whoever tell them "You are our 1 zillion visitor, you already won cash click here!".

    3) Power users and professionals. They might choose an intermediate level like Ubuntu if they are maybe lazy but they know they are capable of anywhere from going Slackware to building their own distro.

    Now Ubuntu is fine appealing to group 2. Group 1 will never move out of windows. By trying to win over group 1, which will be a complete failure ( group 1 is easily bullied into windows ) they alienate group 2 by bogging down already croweded and pressing release cycles.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Beans
    143

    Re: There is a scary discussion on the Ubuntu Developers mail list.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryanVickers View Post
    Idiot-proof doesn't have to mean it's lacking features
    Thats more wishful thinking: To idiot proof something you have to inconvenience non-idiots. If non-idiots are not inconvenienced then idiots fill find a way to wreck things because of it.

    Realistically speaking there's just no way to have the cake and eat it like that.

Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •