How are you going to deal with 64bit?

[bodhi.zazen]

Please provide a link to the official statement from Ubuntu or Canonical that new users should run the 32bit version. After all if it was advised in the past, it should be on an official page, right?

Now you are ranting ... Advised in the past meaning I too have seen new users advised to start with the 32 bit version on 64 bit machines. Obviously not all advice on the forums is somehow an "official statement from Ubuntu or Canonical". I think the advice was reasonable as there was a time when one had to set a chroot to run apps that were not available on 64 bit versions of Ubuntu, Firefox being what I recall as problematic. If this is no longer true \o/

1. If it was advised in the past, well that means it may yet be accurate for previous versions of Ubuntu.
2. If it was advised in the past, and is no longer accurate, then it is outdated information.
3. Outdated information is not FUD.

You dont see FUD? You dont see that the new user was in the 64bit section asking not what version they should run, but if wubi supported amd64. You dont see that suggesting it would be easier for a new user to install another application (3d desktop) they were interested in if they only would just install the 32bit version was not playing on the Fear of not being able to install the application, Uncertainty that they would get it running, and Doubt all new users have?

As I stated above, I do not see madmetal's post as FUD, it is at worst outdated and possibly accurate for some version of Ubuntu.

I can see you are quite passionate about the issue though

What I am asking is for you to be aware of the Ubuntu Code of Conduct :

http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct

IMO you posts are calling the information posted by madmetal "lies" and "FUD" is out of line.As I am a member of the Beginners Team I will ask for another mod to render an opinion on the issue.

[igknighted]

Please provide a link to the official statement from Ubuntu or Canonical that new users should run the 32bit version. After all if it was advised in the past, it should be on an official page, right?

You dont see FUD? You dont see that the new user was in the 64bit section asking not what version they should run, but if wubi supported amd64. You dont see that suggesting it would be easier for a new user to install another application (3d desktop) they were interested in if they only would just install the 32bit version was not playing on the Fear of not being able to install the application, Uncertainty that they would get it running, and Doubt all new users have?

Kilz, I understand your frustration. 64 bit computing IS the future, It is more capable than 32 bit computing, and in reality there is very little that the end user will find missing.

That said, the beginners team is a tool. So far as I know, there has never been any conversation to set any policy regarding recommending 64bit or not. While I am inclined to agree with you, I think a much more appropriate course of action would be to provide links to the team with some basic info and how-tos for simple things like flash (many on this team have never tried to use nspluginwrapper I am sure). Yes, it was a lack of foresight that we don't have a clear policy regarding recommending 32 or 64 bit, but you are the expert on 64 bit Ubuntu. Let us know how easy it is so we can pass it on to the people we help, theres no need for insults or accusations of FUD.

[John.Michael.Kane]

igknighted I posted a link to the relevant thread in post number eight of this thread. With in that sticky thread is a nearly complete list of known methods for installing flash/java/codecs under 64bit ubuntu, As well as all known debates regarding the issue of 32bit vs 64bit.

Heres the link again http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=368607


IMO this is more of a frustration then anything, As it seems the 64bit section is getting more beginners, and it seems those who are new to 64bit come to it with misinformation, and the beleif that it's not ready for xyz use.

Thus users versed in 64bit are left the job of educating the new users of 64bit, and in the process it seems to lead to certain issues or arguments of 64bit being for person A vs B. While at the same time placing an emphasis on 64bit not being ready yet.

In the end there needs to be some consensus among the beginners team, and those members who support, and use 64bit ubuntu as their only OS on dealing with users spreading misinformation.


Side note: Maybe there should be a 64bit team put in place, As the issue can not rest at the feet of the beginners team only...

[Kilz]

Now you are ranting ... Advised in the past meaning I too have seen new users advised to start with the 32 bit version on 64 bit machines. Obviously not all advice on the forums is somehow an "official statement from Ubuntu or Canonical". I think the advice was reasonable as there was a time when one had to set a chroot to run apps that were not available on 64 bit versions of Ubuntu, Firefox being what I recall as problematic. If this is no longer true \o/

1. If it was advised in the past, well that means it may yet be accurate for previous versions of Ubuntu.
2. If it was advised in the past, and is no longer accurate, then it is outdated information.
3. Outdated information is not FUD.

As I stated above, I do not see madmetal's post as FUD, it is at worst outdated and possibly accurate for some version of Ubuntu.

I can see you are quite passionate about the issue though

What I am asking is for you to be aware of the Ubuntu Code of Conduct :

http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct

IMO you posts are calling the information posted by madmetal "lies" and "FUD" is out of line.As I am a member of the Beginners Team I will ask for another mod to render an opinion on the issue.

No, I wasn't ranting. I wanted some proof that it was advised was official. If it wasn't, then there is no way we can rely on it, or have information that he knew what that was. What it appears to me is that you are looking into the past to find an out for bad actions today.
Now instead of posting that information to back yourself up, you choose to threaten me.

Yes Im quite passionate about misinformation and FUD being told to new users. I am surprised you are not.

Edit: After reading the code of conduct I see no section that says we should ignore problems and not speak about them. I do see a section on personal attacks, but asking about the actions of another is not a personal attack imho. I see no section that says that questions about what has happened on the forum is out of bounds. In fact there is a sections "When you disagree, consult others" and "When you are unsure, ask for help" that say I should bring it to the appropriate place, since it deals with new users and a member of your team, is there a better place?
Do you read the code of conduct as a way to stop people discussing a problem?

[afonic]

1. If it was advised in the past, well that means it may yet be accurate for previous versions of Ubuntu.
2. If it was advised in the past, and is no longer accurate, then it is outdated information.
3. Outdated information is not FUD.

.

I don't think this is correct.

Lets say Joomla 1.0.5 has a serious security problem.

- advise not to use Joomla 1.0.5 right now -accurate and correct
- one year later generally advise "Joomla is not secure software" - wrong and FUD.

Yes, back in the Dapper days even I suggested that new users download and use the 32bit version. But in Feisty everything runs smooth and faster.

So I think that having the beginner team saying to use 32bit is not good, especially as this team was formed to help new users.

And yes, it is FUD as saying such things to a new user, he fears that something may not work as well as in the 32bit version, he feels uncertain about what he should choose and the pros and cons as well as doubts if the 64bit version if for him and if all the software works on amd64 platform.

I believe the proper answer should be "post in the x64 forum, there are people with experience in the amd64 version that can answer your questions".

[Seisen]

Who cares if it was FUD or not it has now be taken care of. Last time I checked nobody was perfect anyway. So madmetal went by what he thought was the right thing to do. Its lack of information and knowledge. I personally didn't know that it was getting easier to install some of the problematic apps of the past.

Maybe when new information like that comes out let the Beginner's Team know so we can advise people on what to do. Then we can pass it on to the people on the team that are 64-bit users and spend time in that section of the forum. I think what I am trying to say is that we need communication not fighting or arguing. We are all adults here for the most part so why don't we act like them.

Thanks SD-Plissken for the links I have bookmarked those.

[Kilz]

I don't think this is correct.

Lets say Joomla 1.0.5 has a serious security problem.

- advise not to use Joomla 1.0.5 right now -accurate and correct
- one year later generally advise "Joomla is not secure software" - wrong and FUD.

Yes, back in the Dapper days even I suggested that new users download and use the 32bit version. But in Feisty everything runs smooth and faster.

So I think that having the beginner team saying to use 32bit is not good, especially as this team was formed to help new users.

And yes, it is FUD as saying such things to a new user, he fears that something may not work as well as in the 32bit version, he feels uncertain about what he should choose and the pros and cons as well as doubts if the 64bit version if for him and if all the software works on amd64 platform.

I believe the proper answer should be "post in the x64 forum, there are people with experience in the amd64 version that can answer your questions".

After reading your post I did a little searching. this post I found may go along with what you said. That there was knowledge that Feisty did not have the past problems.

[Kilz]

Who cares if it was FUD or not it has now be taken care of. Last time I checked nobody was perfect anyway. So madmetal went by what he thought was the right thing to do. Its lack of information and knowledge. I personally didn't know that it was getting easier to install some of the problematic apps of the past.

Maybe when new information like that comes out let the Beginner's Team know so we can advise people on what to do. Then we can pass it on to the people on the team that are 64-bit users and spend time in that section of the forum. I think what I am trying to say is that we need communication not fighting or arguing. We are all adults here for the most part so why don't we act like them.

Thanks SD-Plissken for the links I have bookmarked those.

Ok, after reading your post I am getting this idea that you (and maybe others) think that its an attack on madmetal. Please believe me that isnt the case from my point of view.
The title of this topic is "How are you going to deal with 64bit?". What madmetal did only shows to me that there is a problem, one I would like to see avoided in the future. Thats my sole purpose here. Not to see someone in trouble, but that policy is made that stops the problem from happening again.
But what I am seeing is that some people dont even see the problem. That excuses are being made that I fear will be used again if FUD is told to new users. So I feel I have had to ask and point out the problem in hopes that the problem is seen so it can be prevented from being repeated.

[Seisen]

I think its your choice of words and the way that is coming across is what the problem is. I am not trying to attack you but we can only grasp the context of the words used and how they are written. Maybe taking a different approach to the situtation and saying something like this.

Hey guy's I have noticed that people are recommending 32-bit Ubuntu for 64-bit users. It has become a lot easier to install the problematic packages in 64-bit Ubuntu and it has come a long way from what it was originally.. So could let everybody so that it is okay for people to use 64-bit Ubuntu.

[daveshields]

There's little reason to use 64bit unless you have an application that requires a large (>2GB) address space. Othewise, the performance of 32bit will be quite close to that of 64bit.