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Thread: A way for average users to influence development.

  1. #11
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    Re: A way for average users to influence development.

    If you really want to 'influence' development, the best way (if you are not a hacker/programmer) is to make reasonable, staged suggestions to developers (as in no "I wan't a new app for this and I want it now!").

    Join an irc channel where you can discuss your idea(s), post your suggestions to the devs (most project sites have an area for feature requests/bugs), build mockups of your 'improvement', join mailing lists, etc.

    The way to influence development is to convince the devs (in a reasonable manner) that you feature is actually worth developing.


    EDIT: ignore this edit. My keyboard hates me...

    -- UDSF | Tango Desktop Project --

    -- openSUSE 11.3 / Ubuntu 10.04 --

  2. #12
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    Re: A way for average users to influence development.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidgypsy
    All the negatives aside, I think it would be nice to have a say in what software I want, or how I would like to have a piece of software behave. Is there any way to "influence" the developers of Ubuntu currently?
    You can try the options darkmatter mentions.

    I have tried a couple times to discuss tools or features that would be nice to have in IRC channels. The conversations usually end with...

    geek: thats a nice idea, good luck with making it
    me: I can't do it
    geek: learn then
    me: no, everyone can't learn the same proffesion
    geek: well, the feature won't just magically appear...
    me: I was trying to suggest that someone makes it
    geek: wow, you expect someone else to do it for you
    geek: you are a leech and you are on my ignore list now

    At this point I do feel like a leech. If I take a cab then I pay the driver, expecting a free ride would be wrong. So when I want something programmed, but can't pay the programmer on my own, then it feels very wrong.



    I'm pretty good with code so I can do what I'm told, learn more about gnu/linux (right now I don't know anything about under-the-hood stuff) and then program it myself. But unlike driving a car as in the cab example. Programming is something most people can't understand. I have tried to teach the basics to friends and relatives and it seems like many simply can't think in terms of "first do this, then do that 5 times, then if x is more then 11 then do something, otherwise do something else".

  3. #13
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    Re: A way for average users to influence development.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidgypsy
    Is there any way to "influence" the developers of Ubuntu currently?
    Bugzilla.
    Those folks who try to impose analog rules on digital content will find themselves on the wrong side of the tidal wave.
    - Mark Shuttleworth

  4. #14
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    Re: A way for average users to influence development.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidgypsy
    Is this a really enourmous bug, or is it some sort of reporting system?
    It is a reporting system, found from ubuntulinux.org, at bug reporting under support.


    Don't know more then that. I filed a bug that is solved by including GPLed hardware drivers from sourceforge. Nobody reacted to it.

  5. #15
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    Re: A way for average users to influence development.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidgypsy
    Is this a really enourmous bug, or is it some sort of reporting system?
    Both.

    *edit* bugzilla is not that bad. Canonical is developing Malone for Launchpad. It is going to be more sophisticated than bugzilla.

  6. #16
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    Re: A way for average users to influence development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kvark
    It is a reporting system, found from ubuntulinux.org, at bug reporting under support.


    Don't know more then that. I filed a bug that is solved by including GPLed hardware drivers from sourceforge. Nobody reacted to it.

    What's the number? When did you file it? Was it assigned?

  7. #17
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    Re: A way for average users to influence development.

    Quote Originally Posted by azz
    What's the number? When did you file it? Was it assigned?
    Bug#: 12341
    Opened: 2005-07-02 22:27 UTC
    Assigned To: Debian Bug Importer <debzilla@ubuntu.com>

    Dunno what the debian bug importer thingy is. I can't see any signs of that anyone even looked at the bug.

  8. #18
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    Re: A way for average users to influence development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kvark
    Personally I believe it is vital that users, not only developers and companies, can have a say about development.
    I may be wrong, but I thought that users could have a say in development by frequenting mailing lists and forums, helping out, and in turn making polite requests. You've probably seen this before, but let's pretend for a moment that I'm writing an audio-player program (like XMMS, or something). I'm developing this app with the following opinions in mind:

    1. I don't like Gstreamer, and think that a GUI app ought to wrap around commandline tools.
    2. I do not use MP3, and do not want to deal with the legal issues surrounding MP3; I don't have time for such idiocy.
    3. I don't want to be another cook stirring somebody else's stew. I want to make my own stew, in my own kitchen, and make it my way. So I'm writing my own app instead of contributing to an existing project.

    User Alice, who loves Rhythmbox and thinks that Gstreamer is a cool idea, sends me a polite email asking me why I'm not contributing to Rhythmbox since it "needs developers". I politely explain that I would rather do my own project and see it through from start to finish; I have a resume to pad.

    User Bob, a teenager with 69GB of bootleg MP3s downloaded from the P2P service du jour, sends me a couple K of poorly written flamage that boils down to the idea that Linux isn't ready for the desktop because my little app doesn't do what he wants, and that if he wants me to keep using Linux I had better put aside everything I want to do and cater to him. I reply to him, saying quite simply that I do not tolerate such rudeness from paying customers, and he is welcome to go back to using Windows.

    And then there's user Charles, who likes my little tool (and keep your wisecracks to yourselves, please) but doesn't like having to use a separate app to rip CDs to Vorbis so he can have my player pump them through his speakers. Given that I can use commandline tools to rip Vorbis as well as play it, his suggestion is reasonable and fits with the rest of my project. I tell him that I can't make any promises, but I'll probably have rough CD ripping support in the next release.

    The moral of this story? Be polite. I won't speak for other developers, but if I was developing a F/OSS project, and a user asked me nicely for a feature, I would either politely decline and explain my reasons, or plan to implement the new feature in an upcoming release. If users want a say in development, they have to remember that they are not paying customers, that they are making requests of volunteers, and that if they are too rude the developers might just make like Atlas and shrug.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kvark
    To be powerless on this issue is just as bad when it comes to software as having no right to vote is when it comes to politics.
    I don't agree with this analogy: having software that isn't just right is certainly inconvenient; I spent years wrestling with LaTeX and never quite grokking it because there wasn't a decent word processor available for Linux until OpenOffice.org got rolling. But while imperfect software without having a say in the development of said software is inconvenient, being unable to vote is likely to cost you your property, your liberty, and your life.
    My sole duty is to my own happiness and well-being. I recognize no other.

  9. #19
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    Re: A way for average users to influence development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kvark
    Bug#: 12341
    Opened: 2005-07-02 22:27 UTC
    Assigned To: Debian Bug Importer <debzilla@ubuntu.com>

    Dunno what the debian bug importer thingy is. I can't see any signs of that anyone even looked at the bug.
    Hmmm.

    1. Look to see if the module shtat this build is not already in breezy. Go to packages.ubuntu.com and use the lower search tool, the one which looks for individual files. See if the kernel module is included in the Breezy kernel (example, it may be named acecad.ko - You would know more than I). If the driver is there, you are done, if not, go on to step two:

    2. Debian bug reported goes the other way, I think. Like a bug from debian which also applies to ubuntu gets automatically imported into ubuntu. Why this is assigned to that is wrong, I think. Don't be shy to ask about it on the devel mailling list. I am sure that you will get a quick answer, especially since it has been a few weeks now.

    Usually, bugs get assigned after a few days.



    http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=29

    I stongly reccommend you ask about your bug there.

  10. #20
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    Re: A way for average users to influence development.

    Thanks for the advice azz. I found a package in breezy that doesn't exist in hoary and that can't be anything else then that specific fix.

    Awesome, it is solved. My bad I was confused by that the status hadn't been changed to solved or something.


    So... bugzilla = good way to point out problems.

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