Cold War 2.

[KiwiNZ]

Thats a sad kind of funny.

It was considering our Armed forces at the time consisted of....

Navy

4 Frigates (30 years old)
1 Supply ship

Airforce

24 Skyhawk Fighters
20 Strikemaster Trainers
5 Hercules Transport
4 Arion patrol craft
1 Vc 10

Army

1 Infantry Battalion
A few APC, no tanks , a few feild guns and 6 Iraquios Helicopters.


We really must have been either a huge threat or we were an enormous loss to the Western defence plans.

[dataw0lf]

This is about as credible as the U.S. general who said that the war in Iraq was about religion (everyone knows that its about Oil- aka making sure the supply is stable. The whole Islam vs. Christianity thing is for morons on both sides who can't grok what the real reasons are; their support is unfortunately needed)

Going to have to call you on this one, poof. There is no _one_ reason we invaded Iraq, excepting perhaps our (the U.S.'s) imperial ambition: a 'unipolar world in which the United States has no peer competitor'.

The whole Islam versus Christianity thing is not 'just for morons'. We're not just attempting an invasion of a country; we're attempting a subtle cultural invasion. This, of course, is largely about religion.

As a former US Army cavalry scout and Attack Pathfinder (e.g., badass ), who participated in both the Iraqi and Afghani conflicts, I was and am appalled at our country's citizens who somehow think that we're doing the right thing. The most surprising thing, of course, is their pompous assumption that the U.S. knows what's "right" for other countries.

It's a shame that our country is being torn apart by politicians and their greed infested corporate owners.

When will it stop? Most likely never.

[az]

The U.S. is more of a big brother who helps out another nations, especially ones where there is a financial interest!

Big brother who helps out? Ah! The propaganda is working!

Ever listen to the news that is broadcast from outside of the US? The news the US media reports is somewhat distorted with respect to US foreign policy.

[sonny]

I don't think we have to worry about anything; at least in what is left of the year and the next one, because both sides are busy in other things. US is "building" a "democracy" in Irak so they start pumping the oil, they're also building the oil-duct in the middle east (the one that cross Afganistan), and worry about making their president less stupid for the public so the party can win the next elections. On the other hand China is worry with the economic thing, right now they have to show a stable economic enviroment for the investors, companies and rich people, they are building roads, bridges, railways, ports and airports (for those who doesn't know China is building one airport each year) as fast as they can so the companies won't meet with infrastructure problems, AND they are busy trying to hold down their people; by that I mean, making them NOT to think about democracy, civil rights, unions, elections, republic, and things like that while they still have the strength to work as hard as they can for the less money they can have. For all those reasons neither country will go at war in the short term, perhaps they will but right now Taiwan is not an important topic for China.

[Stormy Eyes]

When will it stop? Most likely never.

I predict a coup d'etat in the next twenty years. The Army would be justified; their oaths as soldiers involve protecting the Constitution, not the politicians.

[poofyhairguy]

Going to have to call you on this one, poof. There is no _one_ reason we invaded Iraq, excepting perhaps our (the U.S.'s) imperial ambition: a 'unipolar world in which the United States has no peer competitor'.

True. Saying there is only one cause to ANY war makes me sound ignorant. Its lots of things: the fact that Saddam wanted to base oil prices on the euro (talk about killing the value of the dollar), the fact that he was our ally in the past and that embarrased us, the fact that the pentigon war hawks are still made that Bush 1 actually listened to the U.N. and didn't kick him out, the fact that we wanted to scare the **** out of Iran, the fact that 9/11 only gave them a small window to get into other unrelated conflicts, the fact that Saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction. Ok I threw that last one in there to see if you were paying attention- we all know that was ********.

But, if there had to be a primary cause it is oil. We are too dependent on oil in the U.S. having such a big supply of it in enemy hands (or worse than that- unstable hands) lit the original fuse. If Saudi Arabia wasn't friendly to the U.S., it would have been the 51st state already for the same reasons.

The whole Islam versus Christianity thing is not 'just for morons'. We're not just attempting an invasion of a country; we're attempting a subtle cultural invasion. This, of course, is largely about religion.

No its not. The biggest differences are economic differences. The hottest hate is jealousy.

One of my best friends here in the states is a Muslim. He doesn't have any problem with American culture. He buys what he wants, he goes to baseball games, he sits in his apartment every night doing the same thing most of the time that most Americans do. If I didn't tell you his religion, you wouldn't have said "he is a muslim." At one point Capitalism was in conflict with Christianity (the first Christians were forbidden to endulge in material conforts and/or lend money) but in the end money and greed is what drives the world, not religion. If the Middle East wasn't so damn poor, the conflict would be minimal.

the religion thing is for people that can't grok the economic and political differences. Sure it matters a little, sure it fans the flame a little, but that difference is insignificant compared to economic differences.

As a former US Army cavalry scout and Attack Pathfinder (e.g., badass ), who participated in both the Iraqi and Afghani conflicts, I was and am appalled at our country's citizens who somehow think that we're doing the right thing. The most surprising thing, of course, is their pompous assumption that the U.S. knows what's "right" for other countries.

Often the U.S. doesn't know whats best for itself. We would stop letting Wal-Mart send all of our manufacturing jobs to China if we did (it would be much better if we sent those jobs to Latin America instead). And you can be certain that the U.S. puts its interest above all others.

It's a shame that our country is being torn apart by politicians and their greed infested corporate owners.

No...whats a shame is that more people worry about stopping gay people from marrying than they care about stopping the obvious corruption in Washington.

Its gotten to the point that when I go to vote, instead of voting what a candidate says he or she will do (because that is lies) I go to www.opensecrets.org and see who gave them the most money for their campaign. Thats who they will really serve.

If I see lawyer's unions (I want to be a lawyer) or oil companies (I DO live in Texas, so its in my economic interest) I usually support them. I see Hollywood (I want to steal their **** forever) or insurance companies I vote the other way. Its sad, but anyone who really cares about politics pretty much has to admits it true.

[Kvark]

The "christianity vs islam" thing is not one of the reasons USA invaded iraq. In general throughout history religion has been used as an excuse for war but it has always been an excuse, not a reason.

Religion is the perfect excuse. If war is religious then it must be holy and righteous, not a crime. Anyone critizing it is a heretic and should be stoned, it is a sin to even think about peace. The enemies are not really human, they are evil tools of the devil so it is good to kill them and you must not show mercy. God is on your side and if you die, he will revard you in heaven, so there is no reason to fear death. Zealots are the perfect soldiers.

So when you have a reason to war, the best way to motivate people into agreeing is by bending whatever religion the people has. But there is always reasons behind why you bend religion into fanaticism. You don't do it just for fun. In this case it is the messy economical and political situation of the arab world which drives some groups desperate enough to train fanatic terrorists.

If USA and friends helped the arab world reach good living standards instead of controlling what they do with the oil. There would still be ordinary muslims but no desperate terrorists.

It is the same with other modern religious conflicts. For example with the catholics and protestants in ireland the real issue is if ireland should be independant or a part of great britain. It is also the same with all historical religious wars. For example the crusades was a clever way to make the nobles fight a common enemy somewhere else instead of eachother at home. There is always some non-religious reasons behind it and then they needed an excuse.

[carlc]

Big brother who helps out? Ah! The propaganda is working!

Ever listen to the news that is broadcast from outside of the US? The news the US media reports is somewhat distorted with respect to US foreign policy.

I'm not naive . I realize that most “news” reporting has a political slant. I meant to emphasize financial interest more than the “big brother” thing which was my slant. People give many reasons for the actions of the U.S. but it all boils down to money and occasionally national security.

[az]

"If USA and friends helped the arab world reach good living standards instead of controlling what they do with the oil. There would still be ordinary muslims but no desperate terrorists."

Wasn't that Hitler's plan when he invaded Poland?

The germans then were as convinced as you are now that they were the standard to which all others must be compared. Be careful.

Of course, now we call it a whole bunch of bad names and look down on the Nazi regime. How is that any different to the US "rebuilding their society?"

[BWF89]

"If USA and friends helped the arab world reach good living standards instead of controlling what they do with the oil. There would still be ordinary muslims but no desperate terrorists."

Wasn't that Hitler's plan when he invaded Poland?

The germans then were as convinced as you are now that they were the standard to which all others must be compared. Be careful.

Of course, now we call it a whole bunch of bad names and look down on the Nazi regime. How is that any different to the US "rebuilding their society?"

Were only controling the Iraquis if you consiter removing a dictator and building a republic something to be ashamed of.

Back when Saddam was leader of Iraq most of the money he got from oil went streight to him and the Iraqui Republican party. When we leave Iraq the oil money will improve the Iraqui economy and improve their living standerds.

And the Germans were convinced that what they were doing was just because when a dictator (in this case Hitler) takes over he gets rid of every type of media that is critical of him and creates a government run media. In the USA we have many privately owned media sources ABC, CBS, FOX, CNN, local news stations, the list goes on.