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Thread: Ideas and Plans for Improving Ubuntu Documentation

  1. #101
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    US
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    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Poor documentation on the main website should be addressed

    Quote Originally Posted by bocmaxima
    So they arent professional because the installation docs arent on the download page, they are click away?

    I think it is a good idea, but I also think youre blowing it out of proportion.
    That about sums it up for me. Obviously, Ubuntu is one of the most popular (if not the most popular) Linux distros out there, and not having a direct link on the front page hasn't stopped that from happening.

    Is your proposal a good idea? Sure.
    Is it as urgent as you're making it sound? No.

    Quote Originally Posted by dmann
    Let me ask you this: what prompted you and 99% of people in the world to learn to boot from a cd if it wasn't to install an operating system?
    This is irrelevant. Anyone who has the know-how and/or determination and aptitude to install an operating system will quickly learn how to boot from CD--that's the point. If you can't figure it out, then you'll have a lot of trouble getting a new operating system set up.

    Secondly, why do you think Debian and Fedora felt if was important give people information about BIOS and boot device selection?
    Maybe they don't think it's "important," just a good idea, which is what a few people in this thread have already said: your idea is not a bad idea--it's just not life-and-death urgent.

    Quote Originally Posted by dmann
    Since creating a hyperlink is pretty easy, can you give a good reason why _NOT_ to link this document to the download page?

    Do you think that other distros are in error for puting a link right in front of you on their website with no searching needed?
    Once again, you're missing the point. I and a few others here think it is a good idea to put a link on the main page.

    Good suggestion. Bravo.

    It's not like my family is about to be drowned or the stock market is crashing or a huge asteroid is going to hit earth in two days.

    It's a missing link. It's not that big a deal.

    Instead of arguing with people that it's an urgent matter, why don't you ask people how to suggest this to Canonical? We here are other users, and we don't have any more power to enact change than you do.
    Last edited by aysiu; July 3rd, 2006 at 07:12 PM.

  2. #102
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    May 2005
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    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Poor documentation on the main website should be addressed

    Quote Originally Posted by dmann
    I am surprised at the reaction I got from the forum here. I truly am. I was trying to be helpful.
    Well, I think you would have had better results if you had titled your thread
    Should we have installation instructions link on the main website?
    instead of
    Poor documentation on the main website should be addressed
    and maybe started off your first post something like this:
    I realize that most people who install an operating system might be savvy enough to find answers to basic questions on their own (things like burning an ISO, installing Ubuntu, installing software), but I noticed that there are a plethora of good sites for documentation but none are linked to directly off the main Ubuntu website.

    Do people think it's a good idea to link to one of these directly? And, if so, how can I let Canonical know about it?

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    5

    Re: Poor documentation on the main website should be addressed

    It's a missing link to the installation instructions. How can that not be a big deal?

    I guess a better point would be "why doesn't that bother you?".

    me to newbie: go download ubuntu, it's awesome.

    newbie: cool. I don't want to wipe out windows cause i have a lot of stuff saved on their, will it work?

    me: yep, check out the instructions it'll tell you exactly what you need to know before you start.

    newbie: ok, I downloaded iso and followed the burning instructions. where are the install instructions?

    me: oh - do a search you'll find them

    newbie: hmm...I went to help.unbuntu.com and read the desktop guide but there was nothing about the bootloader settings or partitioning.

    me: remember what I said? do a search!

    newbie: ok, I searched but I can't find it still.

    me: oh - search the wiki not the main site, or search the forum, I'm sure there's a link to the document in the forum.

    newbie: ok

    me: aren't you glad the document you needed was so buried? now you know that the search engine for the main site and the wiki aren't integrated. also, you now know that the help.ubuntu.com 6.06 documentation tells you how to install applications but not how to install ubuntu itself. Think about how much more versed in ubuntu technology you are!

    Quote Originally Posted by aysiu
    That about sums it up for me. Obviously, Ubuntu is one of the most popular (if not the most popular) Linux distros out there, and not having a direct link on the front page hasn't stopped that from happening.

    Is your proposal a good idea? Sure.
    Is it as urgent as you're making it sound? No.

    This is irrelevant. Anyone who has the know-how and/or determination and aptitude to install an operating system will quickly learn how to boot from CD--that's the point. If you can't figure it out, then you'll have a lot of trouble getting a new operating system set up.

    Maybe they don't think it's "important," just a good idea, which is what a few people in this thread have already said: your idea is not a bad idea--it's just not life-and-death urgent.

    Once again, you're missing the point. I and a few others here think it is a good idea to put a link on the main page.

    Good suggestion. Bravo.

    It's not like my family is about to be drowned or the stock market is crashing or a huge asteroid is going to hit earth in two days.

    It's a missing link. It's not that big a deal.

    Instead of arguing with people that it's an urgent matter, why don't you ask people how to suggest this to Canonical? We here are other users, and we don't have any more power to enact change than you do.

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    London, UK
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    49

    Re: Poor documentation on the main website should be addressed

    Hi there.

    Someone emailed me to bring this thread to my attention. I haven't read all of it yet, but two quick points should be enough to get you started:
    1. The documentation is under the "Support" tab, and I think this is quite discoverable. However I intend to develop discussions about having a "Documentation" tab.
    2. You can file bug reports about the website at https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bugs and about the documentation at https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-doc/+bugs

    If you file bugs, please adopt a constructive and positive tone.

    Matt

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Stoneybatter, Dublin
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    398
    Distro
    Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala

    Re: Poor documentation on the main website should be addressed

    dmann:
    You have a valid point of view. I am surprised at some of the negative reaction. I encourage you to make some report/suggestions using the links Jagot suggested.
    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact

    If you don't know how to download and iburn an ISO, you shouldnt be installing a new OS. If you dont know how to get your comp to boot from the CDROM, you shouldnt be installing a new OS.
    The first time I burnt an ISO was when I installed linux. I did not know what an ISO was at that time. The first time I booted from a CD was when I installed linux.

    You're not going to get many computer novices trying Linux - they're all going to stick to Windows which probably came with their computer, and as such, have probably never actually installed an operating system before.
    Teenage kids who are given a secondhand computer with a decaying windows installation are moving to linux. What does the author of this statement think? That people don't choose linux for practical reasons, but only as a geeky experiment?

    If these are the problems someone installing Linux is facing, then they probably need to learn about computing conventions before they start installing OS's (OSes?) will nilly. ITS MADNESS I TELL YOU.
    They need to install their system correctly first. Not everyone can afford a new computer. Not everyone wants to install bootleg windows.

    It's (or atleast it seems to be) more useful in the long run to find the information yourself.
    A lot of these comments come from the perspective of a user in the wealthy "western" countries, where money plays little role in choice of computer and operating system.
    There are many many users of old out-of-date windows computers who need ubuntu. There are countries with lower profit margins where the true price of windows filters down to the customer and a linux computer can be signbificantly cheaper. (I have read some reports that in the USA a laptop with no operating system can be more expensive than one with windows)

    If you're too stupid to google something then operating systems really aren't your cup of tea (or ubuntu, for that matter).
    New, inexperienced users should be encouraged to use only information on the ubuntu site. There is an absolute jungle of info out there concerning linux. Most of it is out of date and/or will not work with your system. Would you really recommend someone to google "linux, connect modem" ??? The info is there, on the ubuntu site and associated wiki.

    If there is a better way to organise that info, I'm all for that. Go for it, dmann.

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Beans
    5

    Re: Poor documentation on the main website should be addressed

    I'm sorry, I didn't read this part of your response:

    "Instead of arguing with people that it's an urgent matter, why don't you ask people how to suggest this to Canonical? We here are other users, and we don't have any more power to enact change than you do."

    I'm sorry it sounded like arguing. That's not my point or intention. I do want canonical to change it, and I would like advice on how to reach them.

    It's not clear to me how the whole website works. It appears that in somesections the website can be edited directly, while in others it appears to be static. I was hoping that someone here could change the static part.

    I was also hoping there would have been a different response comming from the community, however. It's like this isn't a serious issue whatsoever - or that it's even stupid, or that it's to suggest that if you can't find the document you shouldn't be installing the software.

    To me it was a matter of seeing an area that needed improvement and improving it.

    To me, not having the instructions right there seemed like a glaring mistake.

    I don't know about you, but I read instructions for things that I install even if I've installed something similar in the past. For me that's the quickest and most efficient way to find out if something has changed.

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    5

    Re: Poor documentation on the main website should be addressed

    I will do that, thanks for your response.

    Dan

    Quote Originally Posted by mattheweast
    Hi there.

    Someone emailed me to bring this thread to my attention. I haven't read all of it yet, but two quick points should be enough to get you started:
    1. The documentation is under the "Support" tab, and I think this is quite discoverable. However I intend to develop discussions about having a "Documentation" tab.
    2. You can file bug reports about the website at https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bugs and about the documentation at https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-doc/+bugs

    If you file bugs, please adopt a constructive and positive tone.

    Matt

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Beans
    5

    Re: Poor documentation on the main website should be addressed

    Thanks Bloch. I learned to how to boot from CD and burn an ISO for the first time installing linux. I used the install guide (numerous times as I learned details about filesystems and partitioning) over and over.

    I will file a bug report as Matthew suggested.

    Thanks,

    Dan

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloch
    dmann:
    You have a valid point of view. I am surprised at some of the negative reaction. I encourage you to make some report/suggestions using the links Jagot suggested.
    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact


    The first time I burnt an ISO was when I installed linux. I did not know what an ISO was at that time. The first time I booted from a CD was when I installed linux.


    Teenage kids who are given a secondhand computer with a decaying windows installation are moving to linux. What does the author of this statement think? That people don't choose linux for practical reasons, but only as a geeky experiment?


    They need to install their system correctly first. Not everyone can afford a new computer. Not everyone wants to install bootleg windows.



    A lot of these comments come from the perspective of a user in the wealthy "western" countries, where money plays little role in choice of computer and operating system.
    There are many many users of old out-of-date windows computers who need ubuntu. There are countries with lower profit margins where the true price of windows filters down to the customer and a linux computer can be signbificantly cheaper. (I have read some reports that in the USA a laptop with no operating system can be more expensive than one with windows)


    New, inexperienced users should be encouraged to use only information on the ubuntu site. There is an absolute jungle of info out there concerning linux. Most of it is out of date and/or will not work with your system. Would you really recommend someone to google "linux, connect modem" ??? The info is there, on the ubuntu site and associated wiki.

    If there is a better way to organise that info, I'm all for that. Go for it, dmann.

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    5

    Re: Poor documentation on the main website should be addressed


  10. #110
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    N.C.
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    4,796
    Distro
    Ubuntu 10.04 Lucid Lynx

    Re: Poor documentation on the main website should be addressed

    Yes, it was pretty difficult finding documentation:
    1.)Went to Ubuntu.com
    2.)Clicked on "Support"
    3.)Clicked on "Documentation"
    4.)Clicked on "User Documentation"
    Then there was documentation in "Start Here", which included how to burn
    an iso, etc.

    I guess it needs to be easier.

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