View Poll Results: What does "ready for the desktop" mean to you?

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  • Any person can install it on any computer without any problems

    1,609 34.95%
  • Anyone can use it once it's already been installed and configured

    2,414 52.43%
  • Every commercial application works on it

    453 9.84%
  • Nothing--it's a nonsensical term

    704 15.29%
  • It automatically detects most hardware without the need to hunt down drivers

    2,236 48.57%
  • It comes preinstalled on computers so novice users don't have to install it

    889 19.31%
  • It's suitable to the needs of most beginner users but not necessarily to most intermediate ones

    568 12.34%
  • Windows and nothing else... not even Mac OS X

    46 1.00%
  • Works on my desktop

    1,199 26.04%
  • Other (please explain)

    166 3.61%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

  1. #9511
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    Thumbs up Re: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bwallum View Post
    Could we start a new thread please? Ubuntu has come on leaps and bounds and it would be really useful to take another 'satisfaction' poll and compare it with the previous one.
    Agreed. This thread needs to be locked and a new discussion started. IMHO it should happen every time there's a new LTS version, minimum. it's gotten to the point where the only reason I respond here is to point out who the trolls are. And there's way too many of them.

    Additionally, there should be a demonstration of experience with Ubuntu before one is allowed to post here. Perhaps that could be incorporated with the poll. The poll is closed once you've voted. So why not include a short test of basic user experience? A passing grade on that would permit you to post. That would certainly keep people out that just want to come in and bash FOSS because they feel threatened by it. Change the test every once in a while, say every six months with the release of a new distribution.

    There's a lot of griping that fundamentally has no merit whatsoever. It's like some people have never heard of a search engine, they are clueless as to the degree of tech support there is available for Ubuntu or are unwilling to accept the fact that Linux is a different OS than Windows. Perhaps if they paid for tech support (as they do for Windows unless they are pirating it), they'd find themselves a lot happier with Ubuntu.

    Windows has a huge amount of problems with drivers too. Try running any hardware over 5 years old or less than two months on the market, and you're likely to run into some kind of problem. Somehow people just accept that when running Windows, or else they are still running the configuration the machine had when they bought it with Windows pre-installed and attribute every problem they encounter to a virus or trojan.

    Finally, there's absolutely no comparison between my first Ubuntu experience (Dapper) and what I'm able to do now with Karmic. I realize a lot of that is because of what I've learned, but there are many other factors. But it's gotten to the point where I'm so immersed in the Ubuntu experience, the lines get very blurry for me when it comes to making that judgment.
    Last edited by djchandler; December 28th, 2009 at 07:37 PM.
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  2. #9512
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    Re: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by djchandler View Post
    it's gotten to the point where the only reason I respond here is to point out who the trolls are. And there's way too many of them.
    If there's "way too many of them", maybe you are the one who doesn't want to believe in what they say?

  3. #9513
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    Re: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by djchandler View Post
    Additionally, there should be a demonstration of experience with Ubuntu before one is allowed to post here. Perhaps that could be incorporated with the poll. The poll is closed once you've voted. So why not include a short test of basic user experience? A passing grade on that would permit you to post. That would certainly keep people out that just want to come in and bash FOSS because they feel threatened by it. Change the test every once in a while, say every six months with the release of a new distribution.
    Wonderful idea! Just like the literacy tests of old that freed slaves had to pass in order to vote. As long as the results don't affect my ability to own land, I'm in!

    If I don't pass your test, will you at least promise to count me as three fifths of a person?
    I switched to Windows because of all the disappointment Linux brought me.

  4. #9514
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    Question Re: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Frak View Post
    Maybe? Anyways, Linux works fine for me. Though, when I'm on, I use programs that only work on Windows (re: CS4, Maplestory, etc).
    So you've spent at least three years using Ubuntu (based on your join date) and you are unable to find software that does those tasks?

    My need to sell my product no longer are an issue, but back when I collaborated with publishers and printing companies using lithography, getting high-res camera-ready copy was what was important. Being able to do separations, accommodating various printing methods, using high quality paper for laser printing and having at least 600 dpi for a laser printer was what mattered. Those laser printers were big investments back then, as well as the 32(80) pound bright white paper that was insisted upon. I used a lot of paper. We were compositing college textbooks for one of our clients.

    I see you mentioned Adobe CS4. Is the problem that people won't accept work from you if it's done with anything but Adobe Creative Suite?

    Used to be that if you did graphic design, people wouldn't take you seriously unless you used a Mac. To some extent that snobbery still exists. I suggest that the unwillingness to accept work unless it's done with Adobe Creative Suite is just an extension of that kind of snobbery.

    When it comes right down to it, it's your creativity as an artist or designer that really makes the difference. But the problem is, a good artist can't compete with a good technical Creative Suite user due to that kind of snobbery. Having good tools is essential, but that doesn't make you creative. That comes from the opposite side of your brain than where the skill to master technology originates.

    As for your addiction(?) to a Maplestory, I have no answer to that. But there's plenty of games that run on other platforms, most Wii games for instance, that won't run on Windows either. That's strictly a choice you have made. Have you tried running it in a VM? Being 2D, I would think it should run under Wine. But I'm clueless when it comes to most games, so I have no idea how much dependence there is on DirectX. Of course, the game could have been done using OpenGL, making it compatible with almost all OSes, but that's a choice the developers made.

    Please clarify the phrase, "Though, when I'm on." I don't understand. Do you mean anytime you are online, using the internet? If so, it would seem to me you are overlooking the greatest advantage there is to using Linux.

    Finally, I have this question for you. Why do you care about Ubuntu/Linux at all? Seems to me your life requires Windows.
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  5. #9515
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    Re: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by djchandler View Post
    So you've spent at least three years using Ubuntu (based on your join date) and you are unable to find software that does those tasks?
    I like Maplestory, it's a great way to calm my nerves after a rough day of work. Nothing matches CS4, nothing. When I'm on means "When I'm on and not doing work".

    Also, watch how you post. You are stepping on the Code of Conduct.

  6. #9516
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    Re: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by detroit/zero View Post
    Wonderful idea! Just like the literacy tests of old that freed slaves had to pass in order to vote. As long as the results don't affect my ability to own land, I'm in!

    If I don't pass your test, will you at least promise to count me as three fifths of a person?
    Ouch!

    I don't think what I'm proposing equates in any way to disenfranchising anyone, especially in the satiracle manner in which you expressed it. The reference to racism in your response was a little "over the top."

    But don't you think the poll should only apply to people who actually use or have used Linux? Otherwise you allow hearsay (second or third hand) opinions to warp the outcome of the poll.

    Have you ever served on a jury? The lawyers screen all the potential jurors by asking questions about the experiences and bias the prospective jurors may have against their clients. The aim is to get a fair and unbiased opinion. That is the essence of what I'm proposing.

    So, do you really think you can have a valid opinion about what is by definition a presentation of empirical evidence without ever actually having had such an experience that allows valid observations to be made? All I want to do is apply some scientific methodology to this poll and this thread. Wouldn't you rather read provable facts and valid hypotheses presented here rather than biased opinion based on nothing but self-interest or hearsay?

    Statements such as, "Many people still think Linux isn't ready for the desktop" without backing up the statement with data and some sort of proof of experience with Linux is nothing more than a provocation. It demands a response to challenge the thought process of the individual making that statement and testing it's validity. At that point the thread does become a series of challenges as to whose hypothesis is valid and who's just being provocative for the purpose of invalidating via fallacies or ad hominem attacks, such as what you did when you equated my proposal for a "test" to me being some sort of racist.
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  7. #9517
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    Unhappy Re: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Frak View Post
    Also, watch how you post. You are stepping on the Code of Conduct.
    I am? Please explain.

    If you are taking this personally, that's not my intention. But I do intend to show that there is some bias being presented here that has nothing to do with the actual degree of readiness of Linux. What I'm reading in your post is bashing for the sake of elevating the status of another desktop OS without providing evidence of experience with Linux. What I'm doing is challenging your knowledge and what could be an underlying ulterior motive. Where's the violation?

    If you felt personally attacked by what I said about Maplestory, then I apologize. What I was pointing out is that the game could possibly be played within Linux via other means.

    As for the discourse about my professional experience in publishing and recounting my own experience with the tools and those I had to deal with, that was real. Bias is rampant in the creative arts where technology is being applied because many using the creative tools truly don't understand the underlying technology. For that reason, bias became part of the equation. Clients felt more comfortable with pros using Macs and Adobe or QuarkXPress because they had become de facto accepted standards, recognizable brand names, and those standards became an easy if superficial means of automatically assessing and assuming the degree of creativity and proficiency the potential contractor could provide.

    Knowledge of those tools had little if anything to do with actual creativity. Courses at JuCo were being offered. For a few bucks you could get your certificate and a student copy of the software. I actually made more money compositing textbooks with FrameMaker. Nobody had heard of that before Adobe swallowed Frame. You know why? Because it originated on Unix, was developed for high-end workstations, and was aimed at technical document production. FrameMaker provided excellent tools, vector graphics for technical illustrations, an extremely high degree of typographical control, exactly the features I needed for textbooks running up to 500 or more pages.

    If the question about why you are interested in Linux at all is your problem, then I suggest you are trying to invalidate my challenge of your opinion via ad hominem methods, implying to others that may not know what the code of conduct is that I'm the one being a troll here. Did I call you any names directly? Please point out my transgressions. I suggest that your threat to me about how and what I post is what could be construed as a violation of the code of conduct. Those smilies are available for a reason, including the one that gives you the raspberries. Here it is again.
    Last edited by djchandler; December 28th, 2009 at 10:05 PM.
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  8. #9518
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    Re: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

    In a perfect world, the OS would be easy to install and everything works right out of the box.
    this can be said is only closed on the mac platform, at least from my previous experiences.
    But i am getting a little tired of reading messages with the contex that Linux is so far of the road that it is a wonder that it has so many followers.
    For most people software is available which does what it supposed to. And if not, get involved to change things.
    So far, Ubuntu works fine but i have not really exotic hardware either, meaning its not really old hardware.
    Besides, you realize how Windows oriented the hardware world is, if hardware runs better on windows then on linux. There are for a reason Winmodems.
    So it is not the entire fault of Linux that there are hardware issues, rather it is the hardware manufactures who support mainly windows and nothing else.
    The same is in the software market.
    Most companies support mainly only Windows. Does it make the software then better? Not sure about that.
    A lot of people swear of Outlook or Office as the best piece of Office application around. If thats the standart, then we are lost.

    As far as installtion goes, i think Ubuntu is fairly simple. Beside of typing a password what do you need to know?
    If you want different software, then you need some more knowledge in how to install it. It requires the user to know something about his OS.
    I do not think that Linux lags greatly behind Windows, because you can't compare these two OS really.
    Since Windows gets all the support from every software and hardware maker and Linux not that much, it is unbalanced.

    In a perfect world, it would be great to find Adobe Photoshop on Linux. Or any other app out there.
    But i challenge that not everyone who says he needs the software, really pays for it. Think about it. $700?

    Linux as whole will get better any time and i really think it is a great OS replacement for Windows.
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  9. #9519
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    Re: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Frak View Post
    If there's "way too many of them", maybe you are the one who doesn't want to believe in what they say?
    Caught you, didn't I? "Methinks thou dost protest too much."

    And for the sake of honesty, you should include in your signature that you are a member of the Linsux.org. UF user group. If you are going to troll on the Ubuntu Forums, you should at least say you have never seriously used Linux, and you are just here to provoke, regardless of any protestations to the contrary.

    Are you here to be of any help, or just denigrate what you don't understand? You admit you don't have a real reason to be here.

    Man. did I ever hit the nail on the head when I challenged your post. Your bias is soooooo transparent. The truth hurts a little, doesn't it?

    I see you have needed to protest an infraction yourself before. I suggest as KiwiNZ did then that using smilies would be to your benefit if you are going to deliberately tweak noses.
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  10. #9520

    Re: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by djchandler View Post
    Caught you, didn't I? "Methinks thou dost protest too much."

    And for the sake of honesty, you should include in your signature that you are a member of the Linsux.org. UF user group. If you are going to troll on the Ubuntu Forums, you should at least say you have never seriously used Linux, and you are just here to provoke, regardless of any protestations to the contrary.

    Are you here to be of any help, or just denigrate what you don't understand? You admit you don't have a real reason to be here.

    Man. did I ever hit the nail on the head when I challenged your post. Your bias is soooooo transparent. The truth hurts a little, doesn't it?

    I see you have needed to protest an infraction yourself before. I suggest as KiwiNZ did then that using smilies would be to your benefit if you are going to deliberately tweak noses.
    You do realize that KiwiNZ has taken to closing threads when people start resorting to inter-site crap here, especially when it comes to Linsux.

    Also, just a quick thought: stop assuming you know things about people. 99% of Linsux members have been using Linux, and continue to do so. Several of them have been using Linux since before Ubuntu was even a thought. Come on, you do know what assuming does, right?

    Anyway, I welcome the mods to come in here and put a stop to this crap of calling someone a Linsux troll because they disagree. I ask this again: why does every disagreement end up involving the word "Linsux" in the thread?


    EDIT: If you have a problem with Linsux, then go over there. Don't start stupid stuff over here, please. This isn't the place for it, and 99% of people who start it end up with egg all over there face due to the fact that they do not know the true credentials of the members they are referring to as "trolls" and who they imply know nothing about Linux. It doesn't belong over here. Go register at Linsux and debate over there if you have a problem or think they're wrong.
    Last edited by ViperChief; December 31st, 2009 at 12:48 AM. Reason: Added something

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