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Thread: ATI/AMD's real stance on Open Source drivers; not what you've heard recently

  1. #11
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    Re: ATI/AMD's real stance on Open Source drivers; not what you've heard recently

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMO View Post
    Typical short sighted user response. what you don't understand is that there are programmers out there making your computer work; they are doing it for free and can not fix any problems you may have with these proprietary drivers.

    You only get hurt in the end because convenience isn't a replacement for the advantages of freedoms.
    Linux has room for both open source as well as proprietary.

    If you want to talk about short sighted, think about what would happen if Nvidia compromises their secrets by opening their drivers. I rather have a high quality videocard with proprietary drivers like Nvidia does than a substandard videocard with open drivers like Intel does.

    Intel videocards do not have anything worth keeping in secret, so it's OK for them opening their source. Neither Gamers nor Graphics professional do not even consider buying videocards from Intel because it is only suitable for office environments and nothing more. How is Intel going to care about keeping drivers secret if the only information that they are disclosing is information that everyone else already has? Both Nvidia and ATI have a lot more to lose.

    If ATI and Nvidia both feel that opening their drivers will compromise their secrets that are keeping them in business, then they have every right to keep their drivers closed (or the portion that they feel should remain closed) if they desire to.

    However, what I do want is proper driver support, and I believe Nvidia has done a good job thus far.
    Last edited by dspari1; May 17th, 2007 at 09:58 PM.

  2. #12
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    Re: ATI/AMD's real stance on Open Source drivers; not what you've heard recently

    Intel has revealed that it will develop discrete graphics soon, with open drivers as well.

    Extreme Coder

  3. #13
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    Re: ATI/AMD's real stance on Open Source drivers; not what you've heard recently

    Quote Originally Posted by dspari1 View Post
    Linux has room for both open source as well as proprietary.

    If you want to talk about short sighted, think about what would happen if Nvidia compromises their secrets by opening their drivers. I rather have a high quality videocard with proprietary drivers like Nvidia does than a substandard videocard with open drivers like Intel does.

    Intel videocards do not have anything worth keeping in secret, so it's OK for them opening their source. Neither Gamers nor Graphics professional do not even consider buying videocards from Intel because it is only suitable for office environments and nothing more. How is Intel going to care about keeping drivers secret if the only information that they are disclosing is information that everyone else already has? Both Nvidia and ATI have a lot more to lose.

    If ATI and Nvidia both feel that opening their drivers will compromise their secrets that are keeping them in business, then they have every right to keep their drivers closed (or the portion that they feel should remain closed) if they desire to.

    However, what I do want is proper driver support, and I believe Nvidia has done a good job thus far.
    I on the other hand have an nVidia card and am NOT happy with the drivers. nVidia drops support frequently and doesn't contact developres. Prizrak already stated the problems with their drivers which I have also experienced. You said they deliver drivers for high end graphics professionals; I concur. They don't care about desktop users like us.

    Have you sent any dumps to Nouveau? You might find in the end that free software developers can (and have) do a much better job than people who care mostly about Windows give Linux drivers as an afterthought. Like you said, Intel has high quality open drivers.

    Especially people with things like old TNT2s can't get Beryl to run because nVidia dropped support; if Nouveau can support their cards, there's that much more hardware support and portability and of course fewer bugs.
    [Renouveau- How you can help get a free 3d nVidia driver] | Give AMD and ATI [feedback]on their drivers; why not ask them to give driver specifications so they work better | [Video]: How to create redistributable Debian packages (.deb files)

  4. #14
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    Re: ATI/AMD's real stance on Open Source drivers; not what you've heard recently

    Intel videocards do not have anything worth keeping in secret, so it's OK for them opening their source. Neither Gamers nor Graphics professional do not even consider buying videocards from Intel because it is only suitable for office environments and nothing more. How is Intel going to care about keeping drivers secret if the only information that they are disclosing is information that everyone else already has? Both Nvidia and ATI have a lot more to lose.
    Intel actually has a market share that is higher than both ATI and nVidia combined last I heard it was 60%. The thing is that for alot of things Intel cards do just fine and are a great alternative to both ATI and nVidia. On the other hand both ATI and nVidia also have integrated and low end solutions. There is also a matter of ATI/nVidia chipsets that must use closed source drivers. I'm not sure how well they support Linux on that front but you must admit that support for a chipset is quite a bit more important than video card.

    ATI/nVidia have absolutely more to lose than Intel. If they are licensing 3rd party technology there is no way they could ever release their drivers. On the other hand if they just release the specs to their cards the community could create the driver. Perhaps they will not be as polished and capable at first but they will provide a certain minimum right off the bat.

    This thread isn't really about whether proprietory is good or bad, the problem here is that they have promised open drivers and are now backpeddling out of it. No one made them promise open drivers. For the most part we have accepted how the things were done and started trying to reverse engineer things on our own.
    Since I get asked alot, I am originally from Ukraine but am Russian by nationality. My nick means specter in Russian.

  5. #15
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    Re: ATI/AMD's real stance on Open Source drivers; not what you've heard recently

    i heard somewhere that intel is going to get into the powerful 3d graphics card market, i hope thats true cause that means open drivers and even more competition = better products all around.
    Jabber: markgrandi[at]gmail.com

  6. #16
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    Re: ATI/AMD's real stance on Open Source drivers; not what you've heard recently

    Linux has room for both open source as well as proprietary.
    Only if your really stupid, the only place for proprietary code in the end is custom specification work. it does no good to go all idealogical by attempting to exact a middle ground on a political agenda because my point is that the practical system of proprietary drivers doesn't work, it can deliver once, maybe twice. but your in for a sharp shock in the end because you've sold out your freedom to look after your own property to someone else on the nod that it is some how fair to occupy a middle ground between two ideologies you find extremist. In the end it doesn't matter, systems are systems and they don't care what you think. You'll come a cropper in the end.

    If you want to talk about short sighted, think about what would happen if Nvidia compromises their secrets by opening their drivers. I rather have a high quality videocard with proprietary drivers like Nvidia does than a substandard videocard with open drivers like Intel does.
    I'm thinking about it.... thinking about it... still thinking about it.... nope. can't see anything bad happening should allow the public to understand how they build their cards. if they want protection why don't they use patents and at least allow us to understand how they work? oh wait you can't patent protocols and that's all we want to have. I don't care for their drivers to be honest but I'd like a law requiring all hardware makers to make their protocols available to customers.

    If ATI and Nvidia both feel that opening their drivers will compromise their secrets that are keeping them in business, then they have every right to keep their drivers closed (or the portion that they feel should remain closed) if they desire to.
    Every right? I don't believe they do have every right. what about the rights of the customer to be able to maintain their legally paid for hardware?

    However, what I do want is proper driver support, and I believe Nvidia has done a good job thus far.
    As long as it's closed source I'll consider it second rate and potentially risky.
    42 is not an anwser, it's an error code. the universe is saying 'Error 42: meaning to universe not found'
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  7. #17
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    Re: ATI/AMD's real stance on Open Source drivers; not what you've heard recently

    Quote Originally Posted by joe.turion64x2 View Post
    AMD is the boss there, isn't it?
    good point however as Novell learned first hand just because they are the boss does not mean their subordinates will be defiant of opensource changes.

  8. #18
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    Re: ATI/AMD's real stance on Open Source drivers; not what you've heard recently

    Only if your really stupid
    Dude you need to calm down a bit.
    Since I get asked alot, I am originally from Ukraine but am Russian by nationality. My nick means specter in Russian.

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