View Poll Results: Allow voting?

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101. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    87 86.14%
  • No

    7 6.93%
  • Other

    7 6.93%
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Thread: [SOLVED] Ubuntu Idea Storm?

  1. #101
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    Re: Brainstorm monthly vote

    love the idea. Would really like a central place where users could put forward ideas (as long as they are well written and thought out), perhaps ideas should be vetted before they are accepted onto the site. Users can then signup to the site and place votes on ideas they want to see implemented (users have a limited number of votes they can place at any one time into ideas).

    it would give the dev's a good idea what the community think is important and would allow Ubuntu as a distro to really be what the users want.

  2. #102
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    Ubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon

    Re: Allow users to vote : website in the idea of Ideastorm

    I like this idea. lots of ideas get posted on the forums but sometimes they fall on deaf ears. A site where we know developers are taking note of would be a big plus in my opinion.
    I close my eyes
    As Fire Swept Clean the Earth

  3. #103
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    Re: Brainstorm monthly vote

    Quote Originally Posted by UbuWu View Post
    Ubuntu has had a bounty system almost since the beginning. Although it doesn't seem very active anymore: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/developerzone/bounties
    This was intresting, but like you said it seems quite inactive (last bounty done was 2 years ago). Also I noticed the big price tags on the bounties, nothing that a mortal student would afford...

    The ideal would be people "promising" money to certain bugs or suggestions in launchpad... Otherwise we could just gather enough people to chip in for one bounty at a time... that would be great. Anyone intrested?

  4. #104
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    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Brainstorm monthly vote

    Quote Originally Posted by KhaaL View Post
    Otherwise we could just gather enough people to chip in for one bounty at a time... that would be great. Anyone intrested?
    Thats more or less what I had in mind, so obviously yes I am interested...

  5. #105
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    Ubuntu 11.10 Oneiric Ocelot

    Re: Allow users to vote : website in the idea of Ideastorm

    This idea would rely on the developers actually listening and putting value on the wants and needs of the users. Ask yourself, do you in reality see this happening? Remember this warning posted on the forum.

    "Please note that developers aren't very active here, and will most likely not receive the feedback you post here."

    What makes you think they would use some form of vote system when you cant even rely on them to be active in a development forum?
    I trust Microsoft as far as I could comfortably spit a dead rat

    I'm in my third year at a Lutheran seminary!

  6. #106
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    Jun 2007
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    Re: Allow users to vote : website in the idea of Ideastorm



    (Here you go, well minus the intro to the song obviously, lol.)

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    The A Team By IbanezRulz @ Soundclick.com
    Last edited by American_Outcast; October 11th, 2007 at 11:40 PM.

  7. #107
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    Re: Allow users to vote : website in the idea of Ideastorm

    There already are bounties:
    https://launchpad.net/bounties/

  8. #108
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    Re: Allow users to vote : website in the idea of Ideastorm

    Quote Originally Posted by aysiu View Post
    There already are bounties:
    https://launchpad.net/bounties/
    The Launchpad Bounty system is going away. In fact I think they are in the process of removing all the UI traces of it. It was an idea that didn't work out apparently.

    To be honest I'm a bit skeptical of this ideastorm proposal. It seems like a good idea for a corporate product (like Dell or HP or ...) but I have some serious doubts that'd work for Ubuntu (or many FLOSS projects for that matter). The problem that is see, as Hobbsee pointed out, that this hinges on things actually being done. Here are some relevant observations that I might make:

    * The importance of a bug/feature is a combination of the number of people that will be effected and how critically they will be effected. The practical priority of a bug/feature is a combination of the importance and feasibility. An ideastorm-like site can really only address the "number of people" part effectively. Ideas that are critical to small numbers of people are generally not going to make it if they don't get backed by enough people. Feasibility will have to be assessed by people capable of implementing the desired feature.

    * The usefulness of such a site depends on the most voted "ideas" being implemented. If say the top 5-10 ideas are not implemented within say the 1st release then the voters will start to become unhappy. After the 2nd release rolls around people start getting downright mutinous. And the interest in your site goes by the wayside. Not for a lack of what you did, but it's generally not a good idea to make some claim "Vote for your top feature so it will get implemented" without the control to back it up.

    * This idea, and many others I've seen around the forums, seem to hinge around the idea the "problem" is that the Ubuntu developers don't know what to work on or how important it is to users. The vision I get is some uber-hacker sitting in his mom's basement thinking to himself, "dang it, I can't think of anything to work on!" I would like to propose that this is utter nonsense.

    The majority of Ubuntu developers are volunteers and have day-jobs. Many have families and lots of obligations outside Ubuntu. If you look at the number of open bugs in Launchpad (just over 34k when I checked just now), the number of packages (somewhere around 20k), and then you realize that there are probably not any more than 50 really active developers (there are 97 total in Ubuntu) at a given time, that means for every active developer there is 680 bugs and 400 packages per developer at any given time. On top of that most developers spend time help upstream projects, working in other areas in Ubuntu, and/or helping to recruit new developers. There are already way more ideas than people to implement them.

    Beyond just the sheer issue of available time, the plain fact of the matter is that the average user is not in the best position to understand the feasibility, consequences, and necessary components to implement features they are wanting. They just know they want it

    * I think also the "Developers don't care about us" attitude is also utter nonsense. I've seen developers sacrifice a lot, time, money, family, etc. to try to give users their best. Many developers do skim through the forums occasionally but it's very difficult to wade through with the limited time we have. The forums are not appropriate for development coordination or discussion and are really awful bug trackers. And I'll let you in on a secret, many developers don't say they are developers on the forums because they've been treated badly in the past. It's no fun pouring all your effort out for people only to have them tell you you suck and are an idiot. So they go about their work anonymously.

    So, to end this with a positive note, I do think if you could get developer buy-in and made sure that the voters expectations where managed right that an ideastorm-like site could be successful for Ubuntu. My word of caution is that idea's alone aren't going to be enough.

    -LaserJock
    "That's all very well in practice, but will it ever work in theory?" -- G. Hill
    "A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist." -- Jöns Jacob Berzelius

  9. #109
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    Re: Allow users to vote : website in the idea of Ideastorm

    I too am skeptical, as I've made clear in the other thread, due mostly to reasons LaserJock has illustrated far better than I could have. This idea is really unsuited to being a officially recognized and binding development mechanism for distributions in general, and a distribution such as Ubuntu in special.

    It can, however, work at the upstream level if done well. People can get organized around certain shortcomings and common annoyances in software and attack them, or develop software for which there's a lot of demand "from scratch". Still, the key point would be mobilizing the people who will actually do the work. I could whip up an Idea Storm-like website in a few hours and people could start posting ideas and voting immediately; that's not where it's at, as the Idea Pool forum has illustrated.

    As the forum ambassadors team, we've been meaning to start a team of community developers for a while, but the effort hasn't taken off yet.
    Previously known as 23meg

  10. #110
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    Re: Allow users to vote : website in the idea of Ideastorm

    Quote Originally Posted by LaserJock View Post
    * I think also the "Developers don't care about us" attitude is also utter nonsense. I've seen developers sacrifice a lot, time, money, family, etc. to try to give users their best. Many developers do skim through the forums occasionally but it's very difficult to wade through with the limited time we have. The forums are not appropriate for development coordination or discussion and are really awful bug trackers. And I'll let you in on a secret, many developers don't say they are developers on the forums because they've been treated badly in the past. It's no fun pouring all your effort out for people only to have them tell you you suck and are an idiot. So they go about their work anonymously.

    So, to end this with a positive note, I do think if you could get developer buy-in and made sure that the voters expectations where managed right that an ideastorm-like site could be successful for Ubuntu. My word of caution is that idea's alone aren't going to be enough.

    -LaserJock
    I dont think that "Developers don't care about us" is what was written. But that they care little for the opinions of users in general. That a feature could be very popular, but that it may never get worked on. The reasons could be anything from the developer didnt have time, to the steps for how to get the idea from idea to working feature were not laid out. Other reasons could be waiting on Debian to implement it, because it would cost to much to do. Then it gets forgotten about because of some political fight in Debian.
    Lets also remember that there is a warning that the developers dont look at the forums in this section. That speaks very clearly about how much value is placed on users opinions. After all why should they .
    Developers work on what they want, they are not paid for their work. They are therefore free to work on what they want to. This is just reality. That the user finds the work useful and likes it is only a secondary thing.
    Thats why a site like that is doomed to failure. With Dell it works, because the goal is to please the customer that pays. But that doesn't exist in the world of linux and foss. Its nice that a few do care, but I have a feeling there are just as many or more that dont.
    I trust Microsoft as far as I could comfortably spit a dead rat

    I'm in my third year at a Lutheran seminary!

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