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Thread: Making Ubuntu a Feasible Reality

  1. #11
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    Oct 2006
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    Re: Making Ubuntu a Feasible Reality

    I see what everyone is saying about converting people to ubuntu. I have just about gotten rid of my windows partition and am spending 95% of my time in Ubuntu. However, there are some programs that tie me to windows still.

    I own a small company and I have been trying to think of a way that I can implement Ubuntu desktops for all employees. This is mainly due to the fact that Microsoft has made all of my current pc's pretty much obsolete with Vista. Also, I have been using Ubuntu personally for about a year now. However, my employee's are used to using Windows. I am nervous that I will be spending most of my time troubleshooting because of their lack of knowledge.

    I think in a business environment it is easier to dictate what the end user will use. It is also an easier sell when you talk about the advantages of security and such.

    The average home user or non power user is used to windows and doesn't know anything else. If ubuntu is going to appeal to them, it has to be easy. Home users don't want to think, they just want to use it. Although i enjoy using the terminal, making it optional would definately be a plus.

  2. #12
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    Dec 2005
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    Ubuntu Development Release

    Re: Making Ubuntu a Feasible Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by ralanyo View Post
    I own a small company and I have been trying to think of a way that I can implement Ubuntu desktops for all employees. This is mainly due to the fact that Microsoft has made all of my current pc's pretty much obsolete with Vista. Also, I have been using Ubuntu personally for about a year now. However, my employee's are used to using Windows. I am nervous that I will be spending most of my time troubleshooting because of their lack of knowledge.
    In that situation, you could probably make the switch easier by making all your installs of Ubuntu the same, and make the desktop appear similar to a windows desktop, at least for the time being, to make your users feel comfortable. If you install all the software you're employees will need to use daily, and make shortcuts to these on either the desktop or panel, then they should have few problems navigating day-to-day. If you go with a stable release, say dapper LTS, then the systems should be fairly stable, and the users themselves would not have to get their hands dirty with command-line, etc... just some thoughts... your situation might actually be doable, since you'd be the one installing Ubuntu.
    [ Ubuntu user # 11667 . Linux user # 382989 . ]

  3. #13
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    Feb 2007
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    Louisville
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    Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper

    Re: Making Ubuntu a Feasible Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zuph View Post

    Get rid of the console. Get rid of it. A user should not have to TOUCH the command-line to install anything, Drivers, Programs, anything. When the day comes that I can so something as complex as downloading the source-code for a program, and compile and install it myself, Linux will be truly ready for the dumb masses.
    That is the key right there. I consider myself to be quite a bit above the average computer user, and anytime I want to try and install something, right to the forums I go. While the answer is almost always there, the average user will not put up with something like that.

    _nax

  4. #14
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    Ubuntu Development Release

    Re: Making Ubuntu a Feasible Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by _nax View Post
    That is the key right there. I consider myself to be quite a bit above the average computer user, and anytime I want to try and install something, right to the forums I go. While the answer is almost always there, the average user will not put up with something like that.

    _nax
    Totally agree. I just pulled up the Ubuntu Help Center, and i notice that it covers many things we see users complaining about in the forums... people simply do not want to read help files... even if they are easy to find, easily understood, and give step-by-step instructions. Although, I feel that the help center could be vastly improved, so that brand new Ubuntu users would have a vast archive of easily searchable howtos right on their desktop the first time they boot the new system.

    Until we can automate things with GUI processes, the command line will continue to scare people back into computer hell.
    [ Ubuntu user # 11667 . Linux user # 382989 . ]

  5. #15
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    Feb 2006
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    Kentucky
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    Re: Making Ubuntu a Feasible Reality

    People want things to be as easy as possible. When possible they don't want to think about how to do things. In some ways the normal is just lazy (IMHO). I deal with users and IT staff all the time that ask questions that are easily answered by reading the documentation that came with the product or looking up the error message that they got. In saying I am definitely not saying that we use the RTFM approach. I am just pointing out what I have seen.

    In my opinion the ScreenCasts team is going to really help new users. People watch TV more than they read. If they can watch how to do something then it will be easier for them to implement.
    Thanks,

    etank

  6. #16
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    Mar 2006
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    Scotland
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    Ubuntu 10.04 Lucid Lynx

    Re: Making Ubuntu a Feasible Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zuph View Post
    We're going to hit a wall, soon, though. We're going to run out of "Power Users" to convert, and then advancement will be reduced to a trickle.
    Well, believe it or not, the one person I've managed to convert so far, is not really a power user at all. Neither are the other couple of people that are thinking about switching.

    In fact, the one person I know who is a power user, decided to install Linux without influence from me, but just got really annoyed at it and gave up.

    The problem is, that all the "average Joe's" (and I don't mean, me, Joe being my name ) only really want to browse the web, listen to music, copy stuff to their ipod (or other media player of course) and maybe play a few games.

    Whereas, the techie people find it hard to migrate to linux, as all the technical things are radically different. They're also more likely to want to use obscure hardware or software, they're also more likely to be bugged by issues others would consider to be small.

    The funny thing is, the person who has installed ubuntu, used to always rave about how rubbish linux is, then one day I gave him a dapper live cd, and he came back saying, that it was really cool and he was going to install it as his main OS.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zuph View Post
    Get rid of the console. Get rid of it. A user should not have to TOUCH the command-line to install anything, Drivers, Programs, anything. When the day comes that I can so something as complex as downloading the source-code for a program, and compile and install it myself, Linux will be truly ready for the dumb masses.
    The main problem here is that there are a lot of things you can do with the GUI, that people just don't know about.

    For example, with installing programs, you can use add/remove to install programs, and its really easy and intuitive, however, when you ask on the forums about installing anything they'll tell you to go "sudo apt-get install amarok" or whatever.

    This quite often isn't because that's the only way to do it, but because its the easiest way to tell someone how to do it.

    All the user has to do, is copy the code into the terminal and hit enter and put in their password.

    The forum user could've told them to go to applications>add/remove, do a search for amarok, click on it and press apply. But its a lot more complicated and could even confuse the person asking the question.

    But that's still a problem because "sudo apt-get install amarok", doesn't really help them learn how to install other programs, or worse, they'll think that's the only way to do it, and they'll use it as a complaint against linux.

    I know I haven't really suggested anything here but at least I've tried to explain a bit about why things are the way they are.
    It's time for more... experiments.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    250
    Distro
    Xubuntu

    Re: Making Ubuntu a Feasible Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zuph View Post
    We're going to hit a wall, soon, though. We're going to run out of "Power Users" to convert, and then advancement will be reduced to a trickle. At that point, what do we do? We've already gotten rid of dependency hell and hardware issues for the most part. What's left?
    Cutting Vista support. Let me explain. I, like many or most of you here, am the family sysadmin who also looks after some of my friends' computers when they run into trouble they can't deal with themselves. I have drawn the line at Windovs Vista - I'm simply not going to support it. I'll speak about and show them Linux and I'll continue helping them with XP problems, even reinstallations, but I won't touch Vista. Period.

  8. #18
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    Feb 2007
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    Mauritius
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    Ubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail

    Re: Making Ubuntu a Feasible Reality

    I've seen a lot of excellent comments on this thread.

    We need more:

    1) hardware support
    2) Drivers (I can't run my webcam righ now and it's a creative)

    and I want to say that finally, despite Linux being very strong and stable, it's easy to screw up anyway! I know, I just did!

    I've installed a few things using Automatix2 and apt-get only. I suppose something went wrong... I ended up with no Xserver at all. No desktop...

    Sure, Linux is very stable, neither fails. GUI was gone but I still got a command line...

    But as Average Joe, what am I supposed to do with that.

    I was thinking that it would be good to have something like windows that says: Restore to the latest stable version/Linux/environment (strike the unwanted description)

    Finally, if we want Linux to go to the masses, we need Linux to come with the box...

    Concerning the small business and users switching fully to Linux, I don't think it really needs to be like windows.

    The working tools just need to be really accessible. They'll just need a training to learn the new names and then just put it on the desktop,

    If Open Office is a confusing name, call the shortcut on the desktop Office. It will be less confusing.

    Concerning windows Vista, this is what makes me shift now.

    My previous reason was like of driver support at the time of winmodems. Not with ADSL these are old days.

    I'm even planning to find my game for Linux and bug all the game companies with email asking for games on Linux. (I mean I'll play only games found on Linux)

    I suppose if we all do that they'll think that there might be a market on Linux after all.

    Last thing... We should quite the: Linux is better than windows comparison. We have to say Linux is a good OS.

    Just last night, I had a friend on msn, and she said I didn't had a picture (because I was on Linux, so it's crap). I added a picture. She said she couldn't see my picture so Linux is crap.

    I said, well I can see your picture and my picture. I'm not the one with a problem here! It's not my OS which is crap!

    Anyway that is just to give an idea of what we usually face.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    KY, USA
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    Ubuntu Development Release

    Re: Making Ubuntu a Feasible Reality

    The working tools just need to be really accessible. They'll just need a training to learn the new names and then just put it on the desktop,

    If Open Office is a confusing name, call the shortcut on the desktop Office. It will be less confusing.
    Bingo, this always works for people who just want to use their computer for their daily tasks.. And the best part is that many users are satisfied if they can easy access their favorite programs.

    Last thing... We should quite the: Linux is better than windows comparison. We have to say Linux is a good OS.
    Also agree with that. If you use the words "better than," then there is always someone who's going to start throwing around bogus comparisons... by saying that Ubuntu, or Linux for that matter, is a good OS, we draw more attention to the highlights of it, instead of how it does this better or that worse.

    I was thinking that it would be good to have something like windows that says: Restore to the latest stable version/Linux/environment (strike the unwanted description)
    This goes along with something I was thinking about just yesterday.. If there was an option, say in GRUB or something at boot time, to restore a working state of your operating system... then users could easily get back up and running, with a GUI, after something screws up their system.... what comes to mind here is a botched kernel upgrade, or errors with X and screwing up the conf file or partially upgrading the server. I've had these things happen before, and a restore option at boot would have done wonders, especially for users who are not willing to use the command line to fix the issue themselves. Problem is, how would you implement such a thing?

    For example, with installing programs, you can use add/remove to install programs, and its really easy and intuitive, however, when you ask on the forums about installing anything they'll tell you to go "sudo apt-get install amarok" or whatever.
    This is a VERY valid point, and its something that is all too common.. I do believe that if we leaned more toward telling people how to use the GUI tools already in place... it would make things much easier.
    [ Ubuntu user # 11667 . Linux user # 382989 . ]

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    218

    Re: Making Ubuntu a Feasible Reality

    Well, looks like this is getting to be a pretty popular thread. I can definitly agree with all of these things. My dad just bought a Gateway laptop with Vista Home Premium with it and I must say, it's pretty cool. It's exactly like Beryl, minus the snow, the water, etc. It's just transparent. I do like Office 2007. The ribbon is awesome. It can do everything I can do in linux too. We just need to highlight the goods and say, "Yeah, Vista is cool. But how much would it cost you to upgrade all of your computers in your house to Vista? How about to Ubuntu? Oh, and everything you can do in Vista, I can do for free. Oh, one more thing. I won't ever get a virus. Wait, the list keeps going. I can update EVERYTHING from one spot. Can you?"
    Borris
    __________________________________________________ __

    "If at first it doesn't work... install, install, install again."

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