Bug #2 ?

[bapoumba]

Hi everyone

I was discussing on another Ubuntu forum the reason why there were so few women involved in Ubuntu, in Linux in general, and may be in technological and science areas altogether.

I questioned myself whether I would post (please see the link below, if you happen to understand french ), as once again, the same ol' song was played (I just get tired of reading these kind of comments, my humor has evaporated to almost nothing on this, it is not so easy to give smart answers that will not turn the thread into flames, I feel sorry about it).

I have already described my perspective in other threads. I think this is mostly an education and a social issue, girls and boys being raised to comply to stereotypes. I see how the staff here is involved into having women (and other minorities) feel comfortable. Along with education, this is one of the possible answers we can all give, ie be civilized.

And yugo said half an our ago : this should be bug #2. He (she) has allowed me to carry that idea along. I think this is a good one. What's about you ?

http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?id=83788

[matthew]

Originally Posted by bapoumba And yugo said half an our ago : this should be bug #2. He (she) has allowed me to carry that idea along. I think this is a good one. What's about you ?

I agree.

[earobinson]

I really don't think its a bug, I would love to see more women involved but I don't think that there is any reason that they arn't (unlike bug number one, where I see lots of reasons that linux is not more popular that we can combat). But IMO I think that men are just more partial to toys, now this could be a nature vs nurture thing but I don't think its a bug we can really tackle.

That being said the more woman we can get involved the better

*would love to meet more girls through com sci*

[aysiu]

While men in general may be "more drawn to toys," it's also true that many women who are initially attracted to technology (or to Linux specifically) can be easily alienated or discouraged (more so than their male counterparts) because of certain cultural norms in technology, sexist attitudes, and stereotypes. Some women with tougher skins make it in technology and thrive it in, but you shouldn't need to have a tough skin to be successful with Linux.

There are certainly factors outside of our control when it comes to the gender balance in Linux, but there are also a lot of things we can change to make Linux more welcoming to women:
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/

Just remember (even if we buy this whole idea that men are more "into" technology)--the vast majority of women out there who can afford to have a computer do have a computer, and it has Windows on it. Who's to say they wouldn't be better off with Linux? You don't have to be "into toys" to use Linux.

[earobinson]

I have been told that there have been studies done that prove that in general men have better spacial skills, I think this is one of the things that gets men more interested in technology, lego (since people tend to be intrested in what they are best at and I think the whole building things skill leads to computer science), etc than woman.

That being said I think that there are a lot more woman interested in tech than there are in the tech industry, and this could be due to the fact that we alienate them, and there is room for improvment.

I just see it as something that will hapen over time and not something we can really change in a day. I feel as long as we dont discurage woman from linux they will come in time.

But I could be wrong and its only what I think

[aysiu]

Originally Posted by earobinson That being said I think that there are a lot more woman interested in tech than there are in the tech industry, and this could be due to the fact that we alienate them, and there is room for improvment.

I'm glad we can agree on this, and that's why I don't really like nature v. nurture debates. I think you can change what you can change, and what you can't change, well, at least give it a try.

Also, you don't have to be interested in "technology" to use Linux. You may have to be interested in order to download, burn, install, and configure an operating system, but if all these supposedly not-interested-in-technology women out there are currently running Windows and Mac OS X, they could just as well be running Ubuntu, even if a more technology-minded woman or man installs and configures it for them.

I guess there are three facets to this gender issue:

1. How do we get more women who already interested in technology to pursue that interest? How do we develop an atmosphere that isn't sexist or conducive to attracting only women with the thickest skins who are able to laugh off every obstacle that comes in their way? That's more on the programmer/developer side of things.

2. How do we get more women who do tinker with things to install Linux themselves? Or do they already? Is the percentage of women tinkering with Linux the same low percentage as those who tinker with Windows?

3. How do we get more women end-users? Or is this, like #2, the same regardless of gender? And that preinstallation of Windows is a gender-neutral obstacle to people using Linux on the desktop?

[dorcssa]

Originally Posted by earobinson I have been told that there have been studies done that prove that in general men have better spacial skills, I think this is one of the things that gets men more interested in technology, lego

I like lego and played much with it! Nad many of my girlfriends did.

Btw, what's bug#1? I'm not so familiar with this forum yet.

[aysiu]

Originally Posted by dorcssa I like lego and played much with it! Nad many of my girlfriends did. Btw, what's bug#1? I'm not so familiar with this forum yet.

https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1

[dorcssa]

Thanks aysiu.

[K.Mandla]

Originally Posted by aysiu How do we develop an atmosphere that isn't sexist ... ?

This, to me, is the most important first step. An abrasive atmosphere is counterproductive if we want women to be more involved in Ubuntu, even just as casual users.

If Ubuntu and the culture around it don't seem open to women, then there's little hope of expecting women to participate. That's the ground rule from my perspective.

After that, I think recognizing and reinforcing the contributions women make to Ubuntu overall is necessary -- mostly because as that idea is repeated, it becomes less notable. The more we hear about women using, developing and contributing to Ubuntu, the less unusual it becomes.

I know some women (I think Mimsy mentioned it in another thread) don't want a big deal made out of their contributions, and I can understand that.

But it may be more important, in the present, to underscore what women already bring to Ubuntu, so that people (and not just men) realize that women have valid role in the phenomenon.

While Mimsy (pardon me for using you as an example, Mimsy) might think her presence and opinions on Ubuntu are ordinary and not necessarily noteworthy, it's important for the next person to see and understand. Like it or not, Mimsy is a kind of role model for the people who will show up later. Mimsy and her counterparts set the tone.

I think over time it will just become an understood fact -- that women are involved in the use, troubleshooting, installation and development of Ubuntu. It already is a fact. But when we all see that, then we've fixed Bug No. 2.