Edgy isn't very edgy?

[kuja]

Edgy isn't very edgy

Any edgier and I don't think we would have had something usable on the release date. With this many problems being spouted out, it seems that it was quite edgy enough, no? Seems it needs a lot of work in the "clean upgrade path" category.

[darrenrxm]

I did a clean install of edgy. And I must say it's fantastic. I was using breezy before this. And compared to breezy it a huge step forward.

[eriqk]

Well, it's the first time in ages I had to do a dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg to get out of 640x480 (clean install), so that must count for something.
Unlike the last time, it worked seamlessly, though, so on my laptop it's slightly less edgy than Breezy was.

Groet, Erik

[stimpack]

Out of the box:

No parallelized booting
No SELinux or AppArmor
No XGL
No WPA, so still my laptop is Windows... (I need internet to download something that lets me connect to the internet, wtf?)

As much of a fan of Ubuntu that I am, without the above improvments there seems little reason to risk stability by upgrading Dapper at this point (for me).

[Sushi]

No parallelized booting

Does any distro have this? Nope. ubuntu at least has groudwork ready for this (Upstart)

No XGL

So what? Edgy has AIGLX, which does the same thing. And AIGLX is part of Xorg, instead of being a whole different X-server (like XGL is). So why should it have XGL? Of the two, AIGLX is the elegant and sensible solution.

[prizrak]

So what? Edgy has AIGLX, which does the same thing. And AIGLX is part of Xorg, instead of being a whole different X-server (like XGL is). So why should it have XGL? Of the two, AIGLX is the elegant and sensible solution.

It also has SELinux out of the box but there are no policies, so it's useless. Much like AIGLX that is in there but has nothing at all that uses it. Also AIGLX is a part of the current X server as you said and the X server is the worst part of Linux by far.

It doesn't even matter what is a better solution what matters is that Edgy was supposed to be a "cool" release with the latest and greatest and not necessarily the safest or sanest stuff in it. Yet we still see no out of the box Compiz/Beryl eyecandy, doesn't even have to be the default session it could have been installed under a different X session choosable at startup. I still see no network-manager out of the box, which means no WPA out of the box (at least easily). Wacom tablet still requires tweaking instead of being enabled when it was detected, Bluetooth in Gnome is still horrible and is actually missing a program that Dapper had (not that either seem to be able to pick up my BT adapter).

Basically Edgy is a good release but it is nothing like the toy it was announced to be.

[Sushi]

It also has SELinux out of the box but there are no policies, so it's useless. Much like AIGLX that is in there but has nothing at all that uses it.

Um, Compiz?

Also AIGLX is a part of the current X server as you said and the X server is the worst part of Linux by far.

I think that X is pretty darn nifty, and I find no fatal flaws in current X-server. true, things were pretty stagnant with Xfree, but with Xorg, things have been moving very fast.

So what is your suggestion? Scrap the X-server and do something else instead? AKA "reinvent the wheel"? Why not simply improve the system we already have, especially since it does work for most users as we speak?

It doesn't even matter what is a better solution what matters is that Edgy was supposed to be a "cool" release with the latest and greatest and not necessarily the safest or sanest stuff in it. Yet we still see no out of the box Compiz/Beryl eyecandy

Could it be because it still causes problems for some users? Even though Edgy is meant to be "cutting edge", it's not meant to be un-usable. If you want nifty 3D-animations you can enable the feature yourself.

[prizrak]

Um, Compiz?

Not installed by default. If I'm gonna install things I can just as easily pull AIGLX and XGL down.

I think that X is pretty darn nifty, and I find no fatal flaws in current X-server. true, things were pretty stagnant with Xfree, but with Xorg, things have been moving very fast.

So what is your suggestion? Scrap the X-server and do something else instead? AKA "reinvent the wheel"? Why not simply improve the system we already have, especially since it does work for most users as we speak?

Because there is a lot of backward compatibility in place for one. For two an X server is great in an environment where you need to open a remote GUI to a machine on a local machine it's a waste or resources and an extra security hole. While Xorg is moving along quite nicely it is still by far the least advanced and the most problematic part of Linux. Try setting up dual head without a nifty front end like FC/RH and SuSE give you.

Could it be because it still causes problems for some users? Even though Edgy is meant to be "cutting edge", it's not meant to be un-usable. If you want nifty 3D-animations you can enable the feature yourself.

Moot point, the upgrade procedure gives alot of people headaches yet it's there. I understand that there is no way XGL can be enabled by default as it requires proprietary drivers for nVidia and ATI cards before it can work. However shipping Edgy with a Compiz/Beryl session as one of the choices when you start Ubuntu should have been quite possible.

[daynah]

I'm confused as to why you want it to be "edgy" or "unstable."

One of the reasons I like my Ubuntu more than Windows is because (ha) Ubuntu "just works." With all this talk of scary edginess, I'm a bit scared to go on to Edgy. I'll skip it (yay LTS) and wait till Fiesty.

If it IS not as edgy as many want it to be, maybe it's because of people like me. In the end, Ubuntu is famous for being that one disto that your average Joe like me can use and doesn't often sacrifice it's user friendliness for the power user playground. I think Ubuntu has kept (and still does, I'm just paranoid) a good balance and I'm thankful!

[Sushi]

Not installed by default.

Install it then. Last time I checked, installation of new software is VERY easy on Ubuntu. And are you REALLY suggesting that Ubuntu should be using a piece of software that just reached 0.2 "milestone" as it's default windowmanager?!?!

For two an X server is great in an environment where you need to open a remote GUI to a machine

X is very nifty for other things besides that.

on a local machine it's a waste or resources

Is this the old (and refuted) "X is slow and bloated!"-argument? You are beating a dead horse here. I thought the complaining about X's "slowness" died 1-2 years ago?

While Xorg is moving along quite nicely it is still by far the least advanced

How do you define how "advanced" things are? X has hardware-accelerated 3D-compositing that is right up there with Vista and OS X, and you are calling it "least advanced part of Linux"? Hell, X has features that put OS X and Vista to shame, so what is the problem here? In many ways X is the most advanced piece of GUI-technology, even when compared to Vista and OS X.

Hell, OS X's idea of doing remote sessions consists of sending screenshots across the network! Blech!

Want to know what I think are "the least advanced stuff in Linux"?

- Office-suites. When will we get something that approaches Keynote or Pages on OS X? Propably never. OpenOffice is utter crap. And it keeps on staying crap, even thougn the version-number climbs higher.

- Photomanagement. Where is Aperture-killer?

- Photoshop-killer? GIMP might offer similar features, but the UI is horrible. Hopefully Krita manages to utterly kill GIMP, the Linux-users deserve it.

- Games. In Widows, the state-of-the-art gaming would be something like Alan Wake. In Linux we are raving about TuxRacer.

And that's just tipping the iceberg. I REALLY don't think that X is our biggest problem. Hell, we should all get down on our knees and thank $DEITY for X!

and the most problematic part of Linux.

Do you have ANY idea how complex something like drawing a GUI can be, especially if you have to rely on third-party binary-only driver to do it? Yes, I have heard of people having problems with X. And quite often those problems are related to the closed drivers the users are running.

Kernel has it easy: most of the drivers are open and they are part of the mainline kernel. Those nifty Ati/NVIDIA-drivers everyone wants to use? Closed, outside the Xorg-tree.