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Thread: Dual Boot on Two Drives

  1. #51
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    Re: Dual Boot on Two Drives

    There are to many people who have windows and they're data on the same large C:\ drive.

    It should be done by the manufacturers that there should be a separate data partition.

    Now when things go bad they think most often to have no other option then to reformat and reinstall windows.

    Mostly lose their data with windows and having no idea it's not necessary to do it that way.

    Never have done so,always made several partitions on my drive and restoring important data on a USB drive as well.

    But you can write a book about it but most people find out the bad way.
    Resistance is futile.....you will be assimilated!

    Registered Linux User 418427.
    #Ubuntu User 3226#

  2. #52
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    Ubuntu 13.10 Saucy Salamander

    Re: Dual Boot on Two Drives

    I would argue that Ubuntu should have explicit warnings and give prospective dual-booters full information about loading Grub in their Windows MBR.
    I don't think Linux users generally like too many warning signs. Most people should know when they are doing something they aren't sure of, and try to find out more about it somehow first. It's just common sense.
    A hard disk's MBR does not belong to Windows, it is not part of any operating system's partition. Windows has a boot sector of its own though. Some people have yet to learn the difference.
    Should the new or first-time user decide to remove Ubuntu and Grub, he/she can end up without a working PC.
    Yes, but only for a few minutes. It's easy to replace the IPL code in the MBR with code for another bootloader, or else boot with a bootloader on a CD or a floppy disk so you can access the information and/or software from the internet if necessary to help you do that, or get help if you need it.
    Should fixmbr fail, as indeed it can, they can end up having to re-install Windows, which is a major P.I.T.A. and potentially disastrous in terms of data loss.
    Well, for one thing, you can rescue all your data with Linux, that's one of the things Linux is famous for. I can teach you how to do that if you like. Secondly, you wouldn't need to re-install Windows at all, only the 446 byte 'IPL' for the bootlaoder. There are several other ways of reinstalling the IPL for the Windows bootloader in the MBR besides fixmbr, if that doesn't work. Several are listed in my Un-install Page. In my website on installing Ubuntu, the 'Uninstall Page is the first page listed in the home page's index, so people will hopefully read how to do that first, before they begin thier installations. So they should be aware of what they are doing. However, my site is not an official site, I'm just an ordinary user of the software like yourself, hoping to be helpful. Not everyone might know of and read my website. There are links for it in many places though, if anyone is looking for help, and many Ubuntu forum members will refer you to it if you ask.
    I got caught out this way, fortunately I am a fastidious backer-upper, so it was just a nuisance. Others may not be so lucky.
    Surely nowadays everyone is aware that they should back up their data at all times, and particularly before making major changes to thier partitions and drives. Come on now... Please!
    As for Grub, a quick scan of the forums will easily reveal the true story of it's reliability...
    (As I know you are well aware of Herman)
    Yes, no-one has ever attempted to hide the fact that there is some hardware that Ubuntu has problems installing Grub correctly in. The posts for help are all here in Ubuntu Web Forums in full public view, for all to see. So people can easily see there is a small risk that things might need a little manual intervention occasionally, and usualy, they can also see how someone else solved the same problem already. That's what these forums are here for. I am sure that Windows-only computers have problems too, Windows tech support employs quite a large number of staff to try to deal with them all, and they are not always successful in solving every problem either.
    Tell me something. How many people would you estimate to be installing Ubuntu succesfully every day, compared with the number of people who type in for help with a grub problem? And of those, how many would you estimate cannot be easily solved. Now, I admit, there are a few that I don't know how to easily solve, but I think hundeds of people would be installing each day. just look at the forum statistics. At the time of typing this, Members: 181,794, Active Members: 135,820. Ubuntu first came out with 'Warty 4.10', which means it was released in October 2004, (about two years ago). So if we divide 180000 members by (2*365) days, that indicates that an average of around 250 people have joined Ubuntu Web Forums per day. Now, that's not a very good indicator of the number of people installing Ubuntu per day, but it's the best I can do for now. This is only an average, and the number of installs will have began with only a few when 'Warty' first came out, and is increasing exponentially, as more and more people find out how good Ubuntu is, and tell their freinds. So anyway, even though this is a rough way of guessing, I think that a lot of people are probably installing Ubuntu every day, and not very many have any problems at all.
    And the ones who do, usually get help and are easily able to solve their problem, once they have the right help.

    Did you ever ask for help with your Grub problem? I have searched and I cannot find any post by you asking for help.
    and getting the space used by Ubuntu back isn't always easy. gparted sure isn't Partition Magic, and most PC owners don't have a Windows disc, just recovery software.
    It works perfectly well for most people. I think you have a tendency to exaggerate quite a lot, and rather often.
    I recommend GParted LiveCD, as the version of GParted on the Dapper Live CD is way out of date now. A lot of improvements have been made in GParted in the last six months, and anyway, it works better on it's own LiveCD. GParted is excellent disk partitioning software, I use it all the time.
    My Acer computers all came with 'Recovery disks', which I agree, do not offer any options, they just erase Ubuntu and re-install Windows to factory shipped settings. Most people have Windows 'Install' CDs, which I am led to believe are more functional.
    I already explained how to restore the MBR with a Windows 98SE boot disk, if you have the 'Recovery' CD, like I do. Besides, there are lots of other ways as well, all on the Un-install Page. If one method won't work there are plenty of others to try.

    That's all for now, you should read my website if you want to learn more, http://users.bigpond.net.au/hermanzone/
    Regards, Herman
    Last edited by Herman; October 25th, 2006 at 09:47 AM.
    Ubuntu user since 2004 (Warty Warthog)

  3. #53
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    Xubuntu 10.04 Lucid Lynx

    Re: Dual Boot on Two Drives

    How do I disable GRUB?

  4. #54
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    Ubuntu Jaunty Jackalope (testing)

    Re: Dual Boot on Two Drives

    Wish, i'd spotted this thread before my recent HD hiccup, currently have Xp on one IDE drive, for the wife/Kids/Games and Ubunutu on a second. Installed Ubuntu after windows and Grub to Ubuntu HD, then set XP as master and Ubuntu as slave via jumpers, and then swapped them about in BIOS ie slave - master, master- slave. So in normal operation boots from Ubuntu with Grub offering Windows, if ubunutu disk fails will boot direct to windows. Convuluted solution I admit but less fiddling for wife and kids should HD fail, again

  5. #55
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    Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron

    Re: Dual Boot on Two Hard Drives

    Quote Originally Posted by Acollective View Post
    truly lucky ... fixMBR did not "Fix" the MBR when I had my little disaster. However I just finished setting using bulldogs method and all is well.
    Just keep that MBR nice and clean, say no to a Grubby mess!

  6. #56
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    Re: Dual Boot on Two Drives

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
    There are to many people who have windows and they're data on the same large C:\ drive.

    It should be done by the manufacturers that there should be a separate data partition.

    Now when things go bad they think most often to have no other option then to reformat and reinstall windows.

    Mostly lose their data with windows and having no idea it's not necessary to do it that way.

    Never have done so,always made several partitions on my drive and restoring important data on a USB drive as well.

    But you can write a book about it but most people find out the bad way.
    I have used BerryLinux LiveCD to fix WinXX when a BIOS update hiccuped. I like BerryLinux Live. Also, data is seldom "lost". Inability to access data is not the equivalent "lost". That's how many people learn: broken systems and desperation. Also, it takes many overwrites to truly get rid of data on a HD. If the data" is put in a separate partition, no access means no access.

    A LiveCD of a Linux flavor can read WinXX files. PC manufacturers are not responsible for educating purchasers concerning the supposed inadequacies of the WinXX file system. Most manufacturers include a photo sheet showing folk how to press the "on" button. Most folk that use PCs do not care what makes them "work". Certainly that is the business model. Time is money.

    PCs are not loaded with WinXX simply because it is a monopoly OS. It is because WinXX is designed "user friendly". To require the Ubuntu developers to hold everyone's hand during their Ubuntu "experience" is a bit excessive. Why should they waste their time making Ubuntu Windows proof? And, what will you do when your USB/eSATA/Firewire external drive quits? Certainly external HD life is no greater than those in the box. Ubuntu does warn those who use the distro: NO WARRANTY, express or implied.

    Ubuntu currently is a superb Linux distro, amazing given the timeframe from start to now. It is stable, even the new final RC, and comes in so many flavors that it boggles the mind. And, kudos to the Debian team that provided(s) the groundwork. IMHO, Ubuntu does not need seatbelts and airbags or emissions controls. If someone desires to install Ubuntu and doesn't know about bootloaders, they can search this forum or the Wiki and find enough information to melt their brain. Also, in many areas where Ubuntu was designed to be distributed, there is no problem concerning dual boots, and triple boots and installing a new distro each day. Much of that world cannot afford toys.

    I personally do not think the Ubuntu Team should concern themselves with those who are installing Linux as a toy, sticking a toe in the Linux "pool" whilst remaining essentially submerged in the Windows pool, especially those who complain about WinXX, yet keep it on their machines.

    Course, that's just me. Ubuntu is not Slack or SUSE either. In fact, I would recommend everyone interested in Linux play with Slack until they have learned something. As for SUSE, 10.1 was a bomb of greater magnitude than the recent PRNK "pop". So much for "corporate" distros.


    Ubuntu is fine!

    registered linux user 266482

  7. #57
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    Re: Dual Boot on Two Drives

    Quote Originally Posted by kondor View Post

    And, what will you do when your USB/eSATA/Firewire external drive quits? Certainly external HD life is no greater than those in the box.

    Ubuntu currently is a superb Linux distro,

    If someone desires to install Ubuntu and doesn't know about bootloaders, they can search this forum or the Wiki and find enough information to melt their brain.
    Firstly, I would point out that an external drive if used as a backup spends 99% of it's time switched off. So will last significantly longer than anything fitted inside a PC case.

    Ubuntu is an average Distro, others are more user friendly, have many more useful features and are more advanced.

    As for knowledge of bootloaders, most people coming to Ubuntu won't even know the term, let alone know to read up on the implications of wiping out their Windows native bootloader.
    You don't know what you don't know.....

    Of course you are entitled to your opinion.
    Last edited by gn2; October 23rd, 2006 at 08:55 PM.

  8. #58
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    California USA
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    Ubuntu

    Re: Dual Boot on Two Drives

    I did exactly this about a month ago with the same success except I made Ubuntu disk the master and XP the slave and stayed out of the bios altogether. Works beautifully!!!

  9. #59
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    Oct 2006
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    Exclamation Re: Dual Boot on Two Hard Drives

    Quote Originally Posted by gn2 View Post
    Generally in Ubuntu the usual way to install a dual-boot system involves overwriting the Master Boot Record of the Windows hard drive.

    However,
    f you are dual-booting with TWO hard drives it is not necessary to write Grub over the MBR if you can access a "Boot Device Selection Menu" by pressing F8
    (or whatever key depending on BIOS)
    You can thus keep both installations entirely separate.
    To do it this way:
    Disconnect the Windows drive and install Ubuntu and Grub on the second drive. Reconnect first drive after installing Ubuntu.
    Windows on master, Ubuntu & Grub on slave if using two IDE drives.
    (This method will also work on SATA drives, or a mix of SATA & IDE)
    Press F8 (or whatever key depending on BIOS version) at boot time to bring up the Boot Device Selection Menu.
    Choose OS by selecting which drive to boot from.
    Select desired default OS by re-arranging boot order in BIOS.
    Only need to press F8 to select non-default OS.
    Well followed the above given method
    1.Disconnect the Windoes Drive.
    2.Connect the 2nd drive as master. Install Ubuntu + GRUB.
    3.Reconnect Windows as master and ubuntu as slave.

    For Windows i have 2 OS installed XP and 98. So when i press F8 duirng booting i get tthe option of only Win OS's. I cant even see the other slave HDD. Although BIOSdoes recognise it during boot! (ofcourse it will). Please help.
    Regards,
    Badguyanil!

  10. #60
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    Re: Dual Boot on Two Hard Drives

    Quote Originally Posted by badguyanil View Post
    Well followed the above given method
    1.Disconnect the Windoes Drive.
    2.Connect the 2nd drive as master. Install Ubuntu + GRUB.
    3.Reconnect Windows as master and ubuntu as slave.

    For Windows i have 2 OS installed XP and 98. So when i press F8 duirng booting i get tthe option of only Win OS's. I cant even see the other slave HDD. Although BIOSdoes recognise it during boot! (ofcourse it will). Please help.
    When installing Ubuntu you should perhaps have connected it's hard drive as slave, Windows on the master connector, but the power disconnected.

    When you press F8 do you get a list of devices?

    If so use the up/down arrows to select the Ubuntu hard drive, when it's highlighted press enter and it will boot.

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