Pardus (Turkish)

[towsonu2003]

I've been testing Pardus Linux (www.pardus.org.tr) for a couple of hours now, using vmware. It's on version 1.0 now and soon will go to 1.1 believe. Default is in Turkish, but I think it has English support as well. They are aiming for the gov. & home use of Linux.

So far, it seems ok. Although a little buggy, the package manager (called "pisi", meaning "cat" in Turkish) is fast and behaves like dpkg / urpm. The distro has also a repo, though it is small.

kde is used as a desktop. minimum requirements are fairly high (218mb ram, 1200mhz procesor).

the only thing I didn't like is the behavior of the devels and participants. I guess I'm too much use to Ubuntu?? Some of them seem to be rude and close bug reports you send very fast.

This distro has no Kurdish support, and seems not to be interested in it at all. When I suggested it to be added, a flamware almost got started. But I cannot be sure if all the devels have a "nationalist" (read: fascist) political agenda in their mind. The flamewar got started by only one person, possibly not a dev, and got shutdown by a devel.

On the other hand, as seen in the screenshot, it looks very nice, and it's very easy to use.

By the way, installation was extremely easy and took 4 or 5 steps. That was surprising.

I do not know about the hardware support bc I installed it tru vmware.

[haxer]

It looks really nice hope it will come out in english or swedish as well

[towsonu2003]

I take my words back. I'll have nothing to do with this distro. its devels are extremely rude.

in a bug I reported, I told them that their icon did not look nice. I even uploaded the same icon, edited to look nicer, to the bug report. Would ou like to know their answer?

INVALID değilde keşke SAÇMALAMAYIN desteklese bugzilla

the English of this is:

I wish bugzilla supported a feature marking bugs ******** instead of marking them INVALID

I'm done with them.

[K.Mandla]

Wow. That's unfortunate. Perhaps we are spoiled here in Ubuntuland, our polite little corner of the Internet. (insert cute puppy smiley here)

I saw a similarly disheartening post at the Beatrix Linux forums when someone suggested it for a slower machine. I won't touch that with the proverbial 10-foot pole now.

[towsonu2003]

Perhaps we are spoiled here in Ubuntuland, our polite little corner of the Internet. (insert cute puppy smiley here)

I guess we are? Well, a recent example:

I reported this bug on gimp-ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu...imp/+bug/62067 and I linked it to another bug about gimp-ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/bugs/18505

at the time I wrote the bug report, I thought the two were different. Then I got an email from launchpad about the status of muy bug report. So I went and read it again.

Guess what, my bug is almost the same as the bug _I_ linked to. So the devel marked it as duplicate... And he didn't wrote anything mean. He didn't insult me! He was extremely polite:

Thank you for the bug and pointer to the other gimp bug. Probably a duplicate, marking a rejected and duplicate

that's really nice I'm simply satisfied.

======
Update: After I posted this here, I reported another bug, teling the devels to implement a "Code of Conduct". I gave Ubuntu's code of conduct as example. here http://bugs.pardus.org.tr/show_bug.cgi?id=3605

here is the flaming reply I got:

Yaklaşımınızın hiçbir rasyonel gerekçesi yok, davranış politikasına ihtiyacımız
olup olmadığına dair düşüncelerinizin yeri de bugzilla değil.

in English

Your approach has no rational basis, moreover bugzilla is not the place for your ideas regarding whether we need a code of conduct or not.

They just lost a tester, one with a _lot_ of free time... But I'm sure they don't mind.

PS. I think they are being so rude _especially_ because I suggested Kurdish language support.

Ubuntu: thanks...

[fastguy]

Dear Towsonu2003,

I guess you're a bit biased and triggered some emotion on the developers and maybe got into blacklist or sth like that. I've made 10s of bug reports and always got nice reponses, thanks, quick fixes.

Ubuntu is at version 2007.1 and has real evolution since 1.0 versions.

Here's the Vision and mission of the Pardus Project:

Pardus Vision

It is necessary to define the area to be covered over time by the distribution in order to make various high level preferences and determinations.

* The distribution shall become an operating system distribution in the vertical markets with differing versions, in various use styles and areas, preferred, used and deployed in every sections of the society.
* Although a non-profit organization, a sustainable organization shall be created which can stand by means of the business models to be created and used, and with its own resources.
* The developers shall make original contributions to the Linux and open source society on a global scale by brining applicable and innovation solutions to the existing technological problems.

Pardus Aims

* To provide full Turkish support by making the character structure compatible to Turkish (UTF-8 compatibility) and by making all the messages and documents visible to users into Turkish.
* To ensure that it is an operating system which can be installed and used more easily than the existing Linux distributions and other competitive operating systems.
* Designing its in a modular configuration which can achieve the required flexibility and high performance with a task-based and human-focused approach rather than a tool-based and technology-based one.

Coming back to the "Kurdish Language" issue, if you check the distrowatch comments, you can see a comment which says:

"In their maillist, PARDUS developers explained that if anyone wants to see Kurtce (Kurdish) PARDUS, as usual, as like as other translations, %80 of Kürtçe translation must be produced. Then they will immediately include Kürtçe in their distro. I think this is very clear.

As you see, Pardus has nothing against "Kurdish" language, just someone needs to translate it to 80% and it's included. Several languages are fully supported at this moment, some of them even in setup (English, French, Dutch, Portugese etc.) and a lot more with KDE.

In your "code of conduct" example, I guess the place is not "bugzilla" but rather would be the discussion mail lists. Ubuntu and Pardus have different philosophies so one may not apply to the other, and that wouldn't be a "bug" in the system.

Coming to the "icon", that's pretty interesting The icon of Pardus is a "logo" and a registered trademark. Now you may like it or not, this is your though and I have respect to that. However, it's not a bug and place is not bugzilla. Again mailing lists would be the better place. Your comment seems to me like saying Mark: "Why is your distribution named Ubuntu and not Zubuntu, I think Zubuntu would be much better, and your logo also sucks, I suggest to use this one". I don't know how Mark would answer.

Nevertheless, I totally agree with you that the response of the developer is not nice. Whatever the bug is, they should have answered in a more polite way (as they answer me). I guess this may also be related to your "provoking" Kurdish language question.

I strongly suggest everyone to try it out!

Best regards,

Fastguy

[towsonu2003]

Well indeed, I am biased for using a language that many Turkish citizens speak in their daily lives And that bias increases once Pardus developers and fanboys start promoting the distro as the "Linux distro that Turks should use" (something not in the text you quoted), "the Anatolian Panther" (most Kurds live in Anatolia), or "Pardus for freedom" (currently on their Turkish home webpage), while being committed to leaving Kurdish language out of the distro (by refusing to cooperate with Kurdish language volunteers).

Thanks for your kind invitation to try Pardus out. But I do not feel comfortable using it after my previous test experience. Their rudeness wouldn't be such a problem if their approach to Kurdish wasn't that rigid and hostile.

PS. You refer to a comment in Distrowatch regarding their mailing list. As I mentioned in Distrowatch a few times before, in their "discussion" (read: unilateral fight) with Kurdish language developers, the devels never said "if you translate it, we will include it in". In fact, they said "You translate it first, and then we'll see if we will include it or not", and in a very unfriendly way too. Almost everyone who was watching that discussion and knew the Turkish thinking style knew that translating Pardus would be time and effort wasted... Hence, the Kurdish language team (who also translated Ubuntu into Kurdish) did not translate it.

PSS. For those not familiar with Turkey - Kurds are an harshly oppressed ethnic group in Turkey. The oppression and the very rigid lack of willingness to negotiate (to give them their human rights) caused a civil war in Turkey in the 90s and the bloody conflict still continues. The Turkish hegemony over Kurds is comparable to the white hegemony over blacks in the US, in case you're more familiar with that. For those interested, Chomsky usually writes informatively about this issue.

[ckaya]

PSS. For those not familiar with Turkey - Kurds are an harshly oppressed ethnic group in Turkey. The oppression and the very rigid lack of willingness to negotiate (to give them their human rights) caused a civil war in Turkey in the 90s and the bloody conflict still continues. The Turkish hegemony over Kurds is comparable to the white hegemony over blacks in the US, in case you're more familiar with that. For those interested, Chomsky usually writes informatively about this issue.

Why don't you try The Backyard or Socialdiscussion.com or any other forum for political issues?

I simply CAN'T understand people discussing Turkish politics when it comes to a simple Linux distro. (Distrowatch.com readers' comments about Pardus -well, they just attacked Turkey/'Turkish politics' with the appearance of commenting about Pardus- drive me crazy as well.)

I can't see any black people discussing about American politics in Slackware forums!! I can't see any Algerian people discussing French politics under a Mandriva review!...

Please, this is not the place for politics -nor ANY website about Pardus. Thank you..

[towsonu2003]

Why don't you try The Backyard or Socialdiscussion.com or any other forum for political issues?

I simply CAN'T understand people discussing Turkish politics when it comes to a simple Linux distro. (Distrowatch.com readers' comments about Pardus -well, they just attacked Turkey/'Turkish politics' with the appearance of commenting about Pardus- drive me crazy as well.)

I can't see any black people discussing about American politics in Slackware forums!! I can't see any Algerian people discussing French politics under a Mandriva review!...

Please, this is not the place for politics -nor ANY website about Pardus. Thank you..

No one is "attacking" Turkish politics or Turkey in anywhere I saw. AFAIK that's impossible anyway - a discussion is not an attack. This thread is a discussion on Pardus, and specifically on its approach to Kurdish language. If you look at which section this thread is posted ("Other OS Talk"), you will see that this is on topic.

The backyard is for political discussions (and other flammable objects unrelated to Linux), not for OS Talk. And Socialdiscussion is not where I go to keep my contact with Ubuntu users.

Your quote is only meant to provide a context to what I am talking about in the real text of my posts in this thread. It is not part of the discussion.

PS. I thought the Kurdish issue was already talked about in the Backyard a few months ago, but I can't find it there.

[amgeex]

Anyway guys, I just installed Pardus yesturday to replace my ubuntu feisty install and I'm quite happy with it so far. It has everything I need, works great, the only thing I want are better fonts, gotta find a howto, but aside from that this is a solid, very well built distro. The package manager is very nice too, and amarok isn't too shaby.