To New Users and those thinking about using Linux: the Rude Fisherman

[DoctorMO]

For all those who come to the forum and feel that your questions get nothing but scorn, your logic ignored and your valid points of critism defended with illogical posts:

A man walks into a village, he's walked many miles in search of a place to live and set up a small fish shop. he meets lots of friendly people as he enters the village; everyone is interested to see the stranger.

As he goes up to the tavern, with every ones attention now drawn to him. he proclaims that he wishes to set up his fish shop and maybe even move to this idilic place. if he finds it a nice enough place.

Everyone is happy, they have found someone willing to share in the community.

Then the trouble starts, he points out that where he comes from they use silver coins as money but this village uses diamonds which is not what he's dealt with and they use Kilograms instead of good old pounds and ounces! He's also got problems with the beer from the only tavern, 'why don't they sell winkles in this tavern, they only sell brew pit, never heard of that before! How will he ever make a living here will all these things that he doesn't understand, how can he enjoy this place without a drink of beer?'

Everyone in the village really likes this new guy and tries to get him to try the new beer and convince him that he can exchange gold for diamonds anywhere. But he complains without so much as a sip of beer; he rants on about the possible exchange rates which would mean death to his fishery business and it's just not the same as back home buying in pounds and being forced to sell in killios 'You should all use pounds from now on!' he demands.

The villagers are a bit annoyed by this rudeness, they don't expect people to berate their cultural ways like this. unfortunately things get out of hand when the visitor calls the village 'nothing but a quaint back water, and will never be more than a hamlet really' people nerves are strung.

Needless to say his rudeness in this community lead the villagers to force him to leave and tout his fishery business and iggnorance else where.

the moral of the story is: If you came to Linux expecting a technical support team to complain to, you've failed and instead found a community. full of people who care deeply about their friends and neighbors.

Please bare this in mind when you post things like 'Linux will never be more than a toy'

[aysiu]

Something else to keep in mind--people generally believe that the choices they've made are good choices. In fact, even when people have made bad choices, they often justify those choices as being good or better than the alternative (sour grapes is the relevant term here).

When you insult people's choices, you are, in a sense, insulting them. "What made you want to get your hair cut like that?" "Oh, you bought that piece of crap car?" "Couldn't find anything better than this apartment, huh?" These sorts of remarks put people on the defensive. It doesn't mean they consider their haircuts or cars or apartments to be a religion. People just don't like being insulted about the choices they make.

Likewise with operating systems.

Go to a Mac forum and proclaim, "Yeah, Mac sucks. No wonder Windows dominates the desktop." See how many positive responses you get there. Or go to a Windows forum and say, "You suckers are paying too much for a crappy OS. Why don't you use Linux?" Again, see how many positive responses you get.

It's no different in a Linux forum or, in this case, a Ubuntu forum. If you want to try Ubuntu, try it. If you have questions about it, ask questions. If you're having technical problems, describe the problems, and ask for help. You will, in all these cases, get positive responses--people tripping over themselves to help you out of the goodness of their hearts (no one here is getting paid to give you support).

If, however, you want to start a thread berating the OS choice people have made, get ready for a fight--you provoked it. It's like being invited to dinner at someone's house and complaining about the food. You didn't want the food? Cook your own damn meal! Well, you don't like Ubuntu, use something else. No one is twisting your arm to use Ubuntu.

I'm of the opinion that no OS (just like a fishing community, a restaurant, a car, a haircut, an apartment, etc.) is for everyone. For some, Windows is the most appropriate OS. For others, Mac OS X is. Then there are Linux users. And then there are people who use still something else. Then, there are people who don't use general-purpose computers at all.

Use what works for you. Respect others' choices. Ask questions. Get answers. Be polite.

Further Reading:
Rant: Attitude makes a big difference

[skirkpatrick]

And one other thing to keep in mind: this isn't a help desk. Don't expect an answer to your question within 30 minutes of posting. Some of us only check the forums once a day or (gasp!) every couple of days. Sometimes the posts get past us. Also, wouldn't you rather have somebody answer your question who knows what he's talking about? There are lots of members of these forums but most of them haven't experienced your particular problem and probably aren't the best ones to help.

[aysiu]

And one other thing to keep in mind: this isn't a help desk. Don't expect an answer to your question within 30 minutes of posting. Some of us only check the forums once a day or (gasp!) every couple of days. Sometimes the posts get past us. Also, wouldn't you rather have somebody answer your question who knows what he's talking about? There are lots of members of these forums but most of them haven't experienced your particular problem and probably aren't the best ones to help.

Further Reading:
To all those with zero-reply threads...

[DoctorMO]

I agree aysiu, my hope is that our guests will understand why they get such responses.

[ubuntu_demon]

Great thread!

I've added a link to this thread in the README FIRST.. of the absolute beginners section here :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=232059

[AndyCooll]

DoctorMo, Aysiu ...agree with you absolutely! Couldn't have put it better myself!

[Brunellus]

Great thread!

I've added a link to this thread in the README FIRST.. of the absolute beginners section here :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=232059

I love READMEs. They...aren't. Those people who SHOULD read the README never do; the people who DO read the README probably wouldn't have had to.

[Lord Illidan]

Good post.

[MrLeN]

Well -- all I can say is that if you think I am a fisherman that has come here and done nothing but complain without trying a thing, you're wrong. I just woke up now after spending a FULL 24 hours trying, using, asking about and considering absolutely everything I can get my hands on. I am going to post a link to the threads that caused this one, because if you want new users to take this post seriously -- then they should also know why it came about -- because of me!

My First Community Thread: I am considering Ubuntu

My Second community Thread: My Conclusion of Ubuntu as a User Candidate

There's a third thread coming; a conclusive post which describes what I found - with my full, complete and objective thoughts and opinions.

Now in my humble opinion, and I'll be completely honest because I am not one to kid or fool myself. Yeah, sure -- I said a few things that might cause a Ubuntu user to want to correct me. I think the most offensive thing I said is that I view Ubuntu as more of a toy than as a viable standalone Desktop OS. Now, I do understand that those words in themselves might sound a bit disheartening for Ubuntu users, but my point was certainly not to blow holes in Ubuntu; because believe me, If I set out to do that I'd have a lot more to say, and it wouldn't be said on just these forums. If I decided to wage war against Ubuntu, my statements would be much more harsh, they me much more prominent and they'd continue for YEARS.

So let's not confuse matters -- most of what I have said about Ubuntu as been nothing but praise. I have been totally honest and UNBIAS. Even though my experience with Linux in the past has caused me to believe that it sucks as a Desktop OS, my experience with Ubuntu was refreshing, educational and as I have already stated many times; Ubuntu has exceeded my expectations, far and beyond.

I believe that you should not be badgering new users, regardless of what they say or believe, because if you do not find a new approach to deal with new users that you perceive as having raw and vague questions about Ubuntu, then you're just going to continually burn them. Posts like this do not help the community. I know all about communities, as I am a member of hundreds of them online. This is probably my 50,000th online post. What you should do is create a post on how to be objective when new users, who are accustomed to Windows, come to the forum with questions and what you perceive as incorrect view.

Posts like this one serve NO good purpose for a community. You should not be encouraging community members to badger new and potential users who have foreign concepts and questions. Even if someone comes here with absolutely NO idea and utters the most ridiculous things; things that make you literally fall off your chair in laughter or smash your fist into your desk in anger, you should always be objective because new users have no idea what your collective views are. And let's face it -- you all can't be 100% right. Opinions are opinions. Not once did I ever say anything even remotely SIMILAR to "ah, Mac sucks. No wonder Windows dominates the desktop" (aysiu).. and to DoctorMo: "But he complains without so much as a sip of beer" -- this is a very poor analogy, because I highly doubt whether too many people have tried and installed so many applications in their first 24 hours as I did.

As a matter of fact, I resent your whole analogy of my situation. It is not even close to what actually happened, and if that is sincerely the way you view and understand my entrance onto the board then it's any wonder you feel lead to make posts such as this. I can easily go back over my first two threads and start quoting incorrect accusations, misquotes and sarcasm. I could fill an entire page with all the unfair statements and community badgering that I was subjected to, while doing my best to remain calm and objective.

I said even more positive things about Ubuntu than I did negative. I said MANY more positive things, and I praised Ubuntu highly. I asked questions and I put in a massive and genuine attempt to give Ubuntu a real go. However, all my praises and positive comments were largely ignored and the community simply pounced on things they don't like. Now let me ask you this -- if you guys have a new member (such as myself) who is totally objective and is able to withstand what I can only describe as a lynching while trying to remain honest and sincere about trying out Ubunto, then WHAT hope have you got for any other user? What on earth is this thread supposed to accomplish? This thread serves NO good purpose. It is insulting to me, because the analogy is REALLY stretching things and at least 50% back to front as to what actually happened, and what gets me the most is that the post has received nothing but praise.

Can't you all see that this is not a good way to conduct a community? You'd be better off spending your time making posts on how to combat objections, and "what to say when someone asks..", and "what to say when someone states..", and "what to say when someone believes..". But just promoting a lynch mob on these forums and literally ganging up on a GENUINE new member, who has had to defend himself since registering is not only weak, but it's pathetic.

MrLeN