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Thread: Automatix -- ethical question

  1. #11
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    Re: Automatix -- ethical question

    just so you people know, i'm from Australia and i'm not a christian, but i respect christianity aas a whole. Now that thats out of the way: Australia also practices the copy write laws of the USA due to free trade aggrements thus it's effectively illegal to install these codecs, but the problem is: i buy music legit, in mp3 form how am i ment to be able to play my music through my computer without mp3 codecs?

    in all honnesty i think that what this script does (all of it) should be legal. But it's stupid to break a law because "it's stupid" Anyway, i'll leave it there.

  2. #12
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    Re: Automatix -- ethical question

    Thanks for the explanation,mhancoc7.
    Yes Automatix is absolutely clear: in the US, it's illegal; the rest of the world can unless specified otherwise. Period! No reason to keep posting here and long live Whatever Ubuntu Edition!
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  3. #13
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    Re: Automatix -- ethical question

    "One of the things that pushes people away from linux is the initial configuration issues. Automatix helps solve that problem."

    Interesting responses ...

    I'll repeat my initial observation -- none of the major Ubuntu distributions has seen fit to include the Automatix script. Does this mean that Shuttleworth et. al. don't know about "initial configuration issues"? Or is there a baseline legality that the major Ubuntu developers are committed to following?

    There is still in my mind a fundamental ethical question about providing an opportunity *with a distribution* for users to violate the copyright laws of their particular country. Yes, there are warnings, but how many people do you think will choose to honor copyright laws rather than have full multimedia capabilities on their brand new Linux toy?? ("... the laws are stupid" is an excellent example of rationalization)

    For many, this is certainly a non-issue. For the Chrisitians who provided this distro, and are encouraged by their primary scriptures to "avoid all appearance of evil", this very well might be a questionable decision.

  4. #14
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    Re: Automatix -- ethical question

    Quote Originally Posted by xyz View Post
    Thanks for the explanation,mhancoc7.
    Yes Automatix is absolutely clear: in the US, it's illegal; the rest of the world can unless specified otherwise. Period! No reason to keep posting here and long live Whatever Ubuntu Edition!
    See the post directly above yours for why that's wrong.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Automatix -- ethical question

    Again, I say this.

    Automatix is a very popular Ubuntu tool that I feel should be preinstalled. I decided to include it because of its value to the end user. I am fully aware that it can be used to install some codecs that are not legal in every country, but they are not illegal in every country either. Automatix, in my mind, makes it very clear about the possible legal implications and it is, in the end, up to the user to do the right thing. I do not believe that it is anymore of a temptation to sin than that of a VCR or DVD-Recorder. I mean if I own one of those I could copy illegal movies. So should I not have a VCR or DVD-Recorder. I know this is not exactly the same, but I think you get the point.

    Put simply, I think that Automatix has enough value to the end user and since it is made clear during installation of the possible legal implications and it does not force you to install anything that it is a valuable addition to Ubuntu CE.

    Thanks, Jereme

  6. #16
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    Re: Automatix -- ethical question

    oh please! didn't your own saviour resist temptation, and isn't such one of the core tenents of your beliefs?
    And more to the point Automatix is not a part of any distro's main install, you have to go out of your way to get it, run it, then CHOOSE TO COMMIT EVIL. Again isn't that another core aspect of your faith, humans are born with free will and must choose THEMSELVES whether or not to sin?

    And if we are running ubuntu in terms of religion, doesn't old-school muslim faith ban the use of 'depictive' images of any sort, ie. only geometric patterns are allowable? maybe we should take all the images out of ubuntu? Perhaps we should include a copy of the torah for all the Jewish users? make sure no cows were harmed in the making of this distro for Hindus? Make sure there are no aspects of ubuntu that promote the eating of beans so Pythagoreans don't get upset?

    Perhaps you should just respect a christian users right to make up their own minds about the morality of copyright laws, suh as the plowshares group who damaged a stealth bomber in ireland, the elderly christians that commit trespass at the school of the americas and recieve 6 month prison sentences each year, the christians against war that attempted to inspect the secret pine gap spy base in australia... etc etc.
    How about you actually consider the complexities of this issue, which the basis of has been discussed for over a thousand years by your own theologians, than jump in and say something should be 'banned', or 'removed'.

    This is such a ridiculous thread, i can't even believe i'm responding. Prerhaps you should consider the term 'secular state' and do some reading about your own religion.
    OH, and remember that a world exists outside of US christian citizens - and we don't much care for your authoritarian, absolutist dogmatic opinions.
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  7. #17
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    Re: Automatix -- ethical question

    Quote Originally Posted by whatrucrazy View Post
    oh please! didn't your own saviour resist temptation, and isn't such one of the core tenents of your beliefs?
    And more to the point Automatix is not a part of any distro's main install, you have to go out of your way to get it, run it, then CHOOSE TO COMMIT EVIL. Again isn't that another core aspect of your faith, humans are born with free will and must choose THEMSELVES whether or not to sin?

    And if we are running ubuntu in terms of religion, doesn't old-school muslim faith ban the use of 'depictive' images of any sort, ie. only geometric patterns are allowable? maybe we should take all the images out of ubuntu? Perhaps we should include a copy of the torah for all the Jewish users? make sure no cows were harmed in the making of this distro for Hindus? Make sure there are no aspects of ubuntu that promote the eating of beans so Pythagoreans don't get upset?

    Perhaps you should just respect a christian users right to make up their own minds about the morality of copyright laws, suh as the plowshares group who damaged a stealth bomber in ireland, the elderly christians that commit trespass at the school of the americas and recieve 6 month prison sentences each year, the christians against war that attempted to inspect the secret pine gap spy base in australia... etc etc.
    How about you actually consider the complexities of this issue, which the basis of has been discussed for over a thousand years by your own theologians, than jump in and say something should be 'banned', or 'removed'.

    This is such a ridiculous thread, i can't even believe i'm responding. Prerhaps you should consider the term 'secular state' and do some reading about your own religion.
    OH, and remember that a world exists outside of US christian citizens - and we don't much care for your authoritarian, absolutist dogmatic opinions.
    Easy!!

    I also do not believe that there is anything unethical with including Automatix. However, lets please not let this go too far. The poster asked the question and I respectfully gave my opinion. Automatix is going to continue to be included. There is no reason to go off on a religious rant.

    This is an Open Source project that just happens to be geared towards Christians. All Christians, not just those in the US. I am a US citizen, living in Japan. We are not all authoritarian in our approach to others.

    One of the goals of this project is of course to bring Linux to Christians, but I do not want it to divide us as a community of Ubuntu Linux users.

    This is always going to come up since there is no denying the fact that religion can be a sensitive subject. But lets please keep it civil and try to stay focused on the technical aspects.

    Thanks, Jereme
    Last edited by mhancoc7; September 5th, 2006 at 03:41 PM.

  8. #18
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    Re: Automatix -- ethical question

    Quote Originally Posted by MiKuS View Post
    Now that thats out of the way: Australia also practices the copy write laws of the USA due to free trade aggrements thus it's effectively illegal to install these codecs, but the problem is: i buy music legit, in mp3 form how am i ment to be able to play my music through my computer without mp3 codecs?
    I don't believe it's illegal to install MP3 codecs yourself (or use a tool such as Automatix or apt-get to install them.

    It might be illegal, however, to distribute those codecs preinstalled with a distro.

    As I stated earlier, as far as I know, libdvdcss2 and w32codecs are the only illegal packages. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this.

  9. #19
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    Re: Automatix -- ethical question

    And more to the point Automatix is not a part of any distro's main install, you have to go out of your way to get it, run it, then CHOOSE TO COMMIT EVIL. Again isn't that another core aspect of your faith, humans are born with free will and must choose THEMSELVES whether or not to sin?
    Is getting these codecs a sin?? Evil?? Come on...

  10. #20
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    Re: Automatix -- ethical question

    Quote Originally Posted by whatrucrazy View Post
    o
    And more to the point Automatix is not a part of any distro's main install...
    Well, this simply isn't true. It is included in Ubuntu CE's main install. I think that is the reason for the whole discussion. The original poster does not agree that it should be included in Ubuntu CE.

    Just wanted to clear that up a little.

    Jereme

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