Endless debates about religious derivatives of Ubuntu

[Brockton]

This has been discussed and dismissed, and you are too late in your hopes that Canonical doesn't back this. Apparently they believe in exactly what their philosophy says, that people should be allowed to use this software for whatever purpose they desire.

Freedom isn't about supporting only the things you approve of. Canonical understands how this distribution and release can help others.

Please take all dissent of this outside this thread. The purpose of this thread is to discuss the technical applications, suggestions, and what not of this project that _IS_ _GOING_ _FORWARD_ _WITH_ _PERMISSION_.

Thanks.

Good good, then I shall use my freedom to stop using ubuntu, since it backs something *I* don't agree with, and consider evil.

I can see this as the start of a very slippery slope for ubuntu.

[Redcard]

Good good, then I shall use my freedom to stop using ubuntu, since it backs something *I* don't agree with, and consider evil.

I can see this as the start of a very slippery slope for ubuntu.

Your decision to use or not use Ubuntu is irrelevent. You're not judged by people here for what distribution you use. Neither should these people be judged for the purposes by which they use Ubuntu.

I point you to this: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/philosophy and suggest that if you are offended by a group of people creating a distribution for churches to use instead of stealing windows and other applications, that you never really had any respect for the Ubuntu philosophy at all.

It seriously bothers me that people are this offended at people's freedom to worship (or not worship) as they see fit. It bothers me that people are okay with Ubuntu being free for use and purpose, but suddenly act oppressed when someone believes differently.

Desmond Tutu, a christian who has done many good deeds, has this to say about Ubuntu:

"A person with ubuntu is open and available to others, affirming of others, does not feel threatened that others are able and good, for he or she has a proper self-assurance that comes from knowing that he or she belongs in a greater whole and is diminished when others are humiliated or diminished, when others are tortured or oppressed."

The Ubuntu software philosophy states:

1. Every computer user should have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, share, change and improve their software for any purpose, without paying licensing fees.
2. Every computer user should be able to use their software in the language of their choice.
3. Every computer user should be given every opportunity to use software, even if they work under a disability.

So I ask you, what are you so threatened about? Because I'll tell you what I'm threatened about. I'm threatened that people like you have your idealistic viewpoints about what Ubuntu means so long as others agree with you. I'm threatened that you can decide that a group of people using Ubuntu as it was intended to be used is using it wrong, and that you feel you can define "evil" and "righteous" uses for something is FREE. What gives you that right?

It is altogether easy to sit here and criticize Christianity, or George Bush, or religion, and then to point and yell that YOU know what Ubuntu is about and that THIS is NOT a proper use of Ubuntu.

You find it improper because you do not share their faith. That, my friend, is the very hatred and injustice that Ubuntu is trying to get around. Not as a linux distribution, but rather, as an ideology that is reshaping south africa today.

I encourage you to have some level of peace with your fellow man. To look beyond your blind hatred of a religion and grasp the greater good of what this could mean to computer users. Freedom.

This serves people. It introduces more users to Ubuntu. It creates a common ground.

I'm sorry that you thought that Ubuntu meant atheism. Or whatever you might have thought it meant. I think it means HUMANITY. NOT humanism, but rather, the seeking of the common ground that defines us all.

No one is forcing you to use this distribution. Nobody says you have to ever comment in this thread, or donate your time or energy to it. What we do say is this: If you TRULY believe in software freedom, and in the spirit of Ubuntu, then you will allow people to make their own choices about the software they use, produce, and distribute.

Otherwise, why are you even here?

[nalmeth]

Noticing very little technical discussion under all the rhetoric. I heard there was another thread for discussing the "validity" of this project, is this true?

Perhaps there is just a better location for this thread, as it is meant for technical discussion, and people usually wander into the Cafe for other purposes. I think this is why people feel they can/should share their 'personal' feelings about the subject.

Any thoughts? I think this is a technical issue

[mhancoc7]

Noticing very little technical discussion under all the rhetoric. I heard there was another thread for discussing the "validity" of this project, is this true?

Perhaps there is just a better location for this thread, as it is meant for technical discussion, and people usually wander into the Cafe for other purposes. I think this is why people feel they can/should share their 'personal' feelings about the subject.

Any thoughts? I think this is a technical issue

Yes there is the Ubuntu CE Development Forum. The great folks at ChurchForge.net have given us the space.

God Bless, Jereme

[Redcard]

Noticing very little technical discussion under all the rhetoric. I heard there was another thread for discussing the "validity" of this project, is this true?

Perhaps there is just a better location for this thread, as it is meant for technical discussion, and people usually wander into the Cafe for other purposes. I think this is why people feel they can/should share their 'personal' feelings about the subject.

Any thoughts? I think this is a technical issue

Oh, I agree.

I've become very convinced that people are intentionally ignoring the commands and instructions of the moderators (even against the terms of service of this board and the code of conduct for the Ubuntu project as a whole) , in an attempt to get this thread and all discussions about it shut down.

I posted what I posted above because I hope that people will read it and leave this thread alone. It'll be, hopefully, with the moderators help and some well placed bans, the LAST that should need to be said in this thread. These people have been asked to go to the backyard, and begin another thread. If they can keep it civil (they did not last time), it will remain open. They seem to be intent on letting their hatred run free here.

I am sickened when people bang the free software drum hard and long.. and then turn and act like the freedom should come with controls that are based on their own political beliefs.

The funny thing is? I'm not even a christian. I've not been one for a long time because of things that the church did to me. But, by the same account, if I'm not going to let the christians have the freedoms I think all people should have.. what's the point of having the FSF, Ubuntu, or debian?

[nalmeth]

I've become very convinced that people are intentionally ignoring the commands and instructions of the moderators (even against the terms of service of this board and the code of conduct for the Ubuntu project as a whole) , in an attempt to get this thread and all discussions about it shut down.

I wouldn't go that far. I would assume that people wander into the Cafe, read the thread title, and the original post, and immediately hit reply, according to their emotional response to the topic. Granted, some people are persistently coming back and pushing the issue.

These people have been asked to go to the backyard, and begin another thread. If they can keep it civil (they did not last time), it will remain open.

I see, so the thread was locked up due to conduct being broken. Is anyone interested in trying again, in an appropriate and respectful manner, of course? I'm not interested in entering this debate right now, but I think it would be fair to have a place to respectfully discuss this, more than anything in the interest of keeping this thread on topic. Obviously this debate won't stop with mere warnings, and banning is an extreme measure which could only serve to worsen the situation. I think it is only prudent to find a way to allow civilized discussion of the "validity" issue in one thread, and to allow "technical" discussion to go uninterupted, and in the proper section. Perhaps the respectful questioning raised can be merged with the backyard debate, and the technical discussion moved somewhere like the 3rd party projects section, so people looking for non-ubuntu talk won't come across it here. They're only bound to voice their opinion if it is in this section, really.

if I'm not going to let the christians have the freedoms I think all people should have.. what's the point of having the FSF, Ubuntu, or debian?

quite

BTW, I'm not a moderator, and not trying to dictate how this should be handled. I'm just throwing this out there as an idea, as the current situation is not working. If my comments are better suited for the Resolution Center, any mod can move them there if they wish.

I just think we need to step back and think this one out

[Perfect Storm]

This part have been split from http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=218724

[aysiu]

Why not just show christains how to install their much needed bible study programs and leave it at that?

Why not get rid of Edubuntu, then?

Different versions suit different needs. Nothing's stopping you from creating your own version. Live and let live. Your negativity toward this project offers nothing constructive to the Ubuntu community, the Linux community, or the world.

[rattlerviper]

Why not get rid of Edubuntu, then?

Different versions suit different needs. Nothing's stopping you from creating your own version. Live and let live. Your negativity toward this project offers nothing constructive to the Ubuntu community, the Linux community, or the world.

Laziness perhaps? LOL
I really think the arguement is irrelavant. People are here because they either support Free software or the Open Source Philosophy. This issue is definanlty seperating the first from the second! Those that are utterly against this see this as someway being harmful. Those that are for this understand that this is how Open Source is meant to function!

Guess what? I support the Ubuntu Christian Edition and think it is a great idea! Religous philosophy aside, if it can benefit even a few...if it can bring new users to Ubuntu...Wonderful! If it hurts someones feelings they really need to do a self assement. How can someone carry so much anger?
And no, I'm not a Christian.

[eXisor]

Live and let live.

I'm only going to have a problem with this if it suddenly arrives as a critical update on my Ubuntu distro the way WGA did for MS.

If members of another religion or even atheists want to spawn their on distro, they should do so. So say I.

But I would expect these versions to be supported by Canonical too. Ubuntu is not about exclusive agendas.

It would be nice if Canonical expressed this officially.

However this is a potentially slippery slope for Canonical....

The theoretical situation arises: some religions are offensive to other religions, and this may well result in Canonical having to take sides. This would be against the spirit of Ubuntu.

The religion in question (and I am not a adherent) is Satanism.

Would Canonical support a Satanic version of Ubuntu? By the spirit of Ubuntu, and the precedent they have just set, they should.

Edit: I think this is an important issue and I don't want it lost in an anti-christian ubuntu rant, so I'm going to start a new thread.
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=233469