Please help test the bug-fix for 'Install/reinstall wipes out all/other partitions'

[ventrical]

I see. You did more advanced things than I could imagine

Do you think we must use a two step procedure?

In some ways, yes. What I think is happening is that there is a TRAFFIC COP when using UEFI. When Windows 8 is being installed FIRST it creates a MAP or TABLE specific for UEFI - so- when computer FIRST boots it passes control over to UEFI and UEFI <grabs> the maps and tables that are in some area of the boot record . Now .. it is designed so that when Ubuntu attempts to install from USB it looks for other operating systems but either something in the Ubuntu USB boot process is dumping a _map_ or table from UEFI and taking control of UEFI <or> it cannot <get> the data table as it could be possible that UEFI is grabbing the map&table FIRST from the boot sector of the hdd!!

The reason why I say this is that the Ubuntu USB flash drive still boots in true UEFI mode, otherwise it would default to Plymouth - so I am assuming that the Ubuntu USB boot proceedure is somehow not able to handle the way the Windows 8 UEFI maps and tables are formatted. IF this is really the case then the bug fix should not be that difficult.

So here is step by step synopsis.

1. Install Windows 8 in UEFI mode. <full install - no manual partitions>
2. Windows 8 runs in UEFI mode.
3. Prepare to install Ubuntu 14.04 alongside Windows 8
4. Ubuntu boots into UEFI mode but Ubiquity cannot find Windows 8 OS
5. <Something Else> shows us the NTFS file partitions
6. We go <back> to live mode, enable proposed repositories and install proposed ubiquity.
7. Use the partitioner again and still no Windows 8 detected.
8. Go <back> to live and open gparted and resize ntfs file to create free space
9.Format free space as ext4.
10. Confirm operations in gparted.
11. Proceed again to Ubiquity partitioner.
12. Choose <something else>.
13 Create ext4 partition <rooted> and swap space.
14. Proceed to install Ubuntu.
15. sudo update-grub
16. Voila' Windows 8 Bootloader and Ubuntu detected but no UEFI.

Observations/results:- Process of Installing Ubuntu has annuled UEFI and rolled back to legacy MODE. Since this is taking place in GRuB then it is somewhat safe to assume that UEFI got bumped or routed_by during the Ubuntu installation process.

1. Boot Ubuntu and write a list of the detected operating system somewhere (which will work only with a read-write file system)

This would be the logical next step because we can't see whats going on under the hood.

2. Reboot (which might be automatic after the detecting stage) into the regular install stage

As you know the Windows install process does just this. It will suspend and reboot while not actually rebooting the CD and continue it's install.

In this case 'Install alongside' should be allowed only from USB (with a read-write file system, for example created with the Startup Disk Creator or Unetbootin, maybe not necessarily a persistent live system, the FAT32 partition should do).

-o-

But that's just the thing. If ubuntu is live and running, Windows 8 system will not allow read/write. It is in some sort of protected mode (which I guess is the whole purpose of UEFI). Now the thing is, is that even though Windows 8 OS is not being detected the partitions in the Ubiquity partitioner still show the ntfs boot <System Reserved> and the ntfs <filesystem> so Ubiquity is not using expert_system to assume that those two <unknown> systems are actually Windows 8. We should be able to create an experimental test case to prove this. That is another reason why I was looking at the UUIDs .. in effect to be able to create a new pointer that Ubiquity could understand - so it would be like <fake_windows_8_OS> on sda(n) but I can see now that those UUIDs are of no use in proceeding with the process I am proposing.

Regards..

Do you mean that the Windows installation was transformed from UEFI to BIOS and still worked? Or was the data available, but Windows did not work?

Yes .. everything *still* works .. even now. Windows 8 UEFI was transformed to BIOS !!! I am going to use another drive and try again, later.

[grahammechanical]

@ventrical

You have made some points in this last post that fit some of the problems people have been posting about in the other sections of the forum. Such as not being offered an Install Alongside option: The partitioner not detecting Windows and offering Erase Disk option.

And then there are the posts where Boot Repair has been run and it reports that Grub is not installed in the MBR and the repair puts the require EFI Ubuntu boot files in the boot partition but the problem is not fixed. Look at this thread and check out the Boot Repair report. The machine only has Ubuntu on it. So, why is the install failing and also boot repair failing? Note my next to useless advice. I am starting think "conspiracy! Bill Gates, come out, come out, wherever you are."

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2259055&page=3

Regards.

[ventrical]

@ventrical

You have made some points in this last post that fit some of the problems people have been posting about in the other sections of the forum. Such as not being offered an Install Alongside option: The partitioner not detecting Windows and offering Erase Disk option.

And then there are the posts where Boot Repair has been run and it reports that Grub is not installed in the MBR and the repair puts the require EFI Ubuntu boot files in the boot partition but the problem is not fixed. Look at this thread and check out the Boot Repair report. The machine only has Ubuntu on it. So, why is the install failing and also boot repair failing? Note my next to useless advice. I am starting think "conspiracy! Bill Gates, come out, come out, wherever you are."

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2259055&page=3

Regards.

@graham

Your link brings us back to here

It is a conspiracy of sorts. That can be proven with gparted. The Windows 8 UUID codes are actual WPA keys (Windows Product Activation). and gparted will warn you that changing the keys could invalidate the WPA!!! gparted, however, provides a way to use half-keys so that the old keys can be restored so those devs have been through the loop already it seems.

I also know you have been following UEFI and GRuB problems very closely and that we have debated this item in the past in detail.. but it rears it's head once again!

I am still experimenting (some might say hacking) lol .. but I am not trying to Bust Bill's Bonanza at all.. I am just looking for an easy hack so UEFI can be shared in a fair way being that MS does not own the entire space on the harddrive.

So i am of the thinking that if I install Windows 8 on hdd in UEFI mode THEN shut down and remove the drive THEN stick in USB trusty.iso and boot to live session in UEFI mode (which works) and then hotplug the Windows 8 drive back into the system and try an install or see what happens. This way it will prove the UEFI is not grabbing the maps and tables off the hdd and that ubuntu installer is the problem. There are also a lot of hardware BIOS bugs that Ubuntu will refuse to deal with and just dump them. It's a real cornundrum ...

Regards..

edit*

It just occured to me that once UEFI is enabled and then Windows 8 is installed that the Windows 8 UEFI maps and tables are still in the UEFI even after the machine is turned off .. sort of like the BIOS battery .. so after I install I will disabled UEFI and then re-enable it and see if that flushes whatever buffered data it is holding (if it is holding data)...so then Ubuntu install does not flush the UEFI buffers ... or to that affect is my assumption.. why .. I haven't got a clue lol

*edit* hehehehe .. Ok.. I tried my proceedure and now it hard boots into Windows 8 only. USB will not boot up with Windows hdd drive installed and will not recognize hot-plug Windows 8 UEFI drive. So Technically that hdd belongs to Bill now ahehehe

[ventrical]

@graham

Your link brings us back to here

It is a conspiracy of sorts. That can be proven with gparted. The Windows 8 UUID codes are actual WPA keys (Windows Product Activation). and gparted will warn you that changing the keys could invalidate the WPA!!! gparted, however, provides a way to use half-keys so that the old keys can be restored so those devs have been through the loop already it seems.

I also know you have been following UEFI and GRuB problems very closely and that we have debated this item in the past in detail.. but it rears it's head once again!

I am still experimenting (some might say hacking) lol .. but I am not trying to Bust Bill's Bonanza at all.. I am just looking for an easy hack so UEFI can be shared in a fair way being that MS does not own the entire space on the harddrive.

So i am of the thinking that if I install Windows 8 on hdd in UEFI mode THEN shut down and remove the drive THEN stick in USB trusty.iso and boot to live session in UEFI mode (which works) and then hotplug the Windows 8 drive back into the system and try an install or see what happens. This way it will prove the UEFI is not grabbing the maps and tables off the hdd and that ubuntu installer is the problem. There are also a lot of hardware BIOS bugs that Ubuntu will refuse to deal with and just dump them. It's a real cornundrum ...

Regards..

edit*

It just occured to me that once UEFI is enabled and then Windows 8 is installed that the Windows 8 UEFI maps and tables are still in the UEFI even after the machine is turned off .. sort of like the BIOS battery .. so after I install I will disabled UEFI and then re-enable it and see if that flushes whatever buffered data it is holding (if it is holding data)...so then Ubuntu install does not flush the UEFI buffers ... or to that affect is my assumption.. why .. I haven't got a clue lol

*edit* hehehehe .. Ok.. I tried my proceedure and now it hard boots into Windows 8 only. USB will not boot up with Windows hdd drive installed and will not recognize hot-plug Windows 8 UEFI drive. So Technically that hdd belongs to Bill now ahehehe

hdd does not belong to Bill any longer. I opened a new thread on this. I was successful in detecting Windows bootloader and partioning 'alongside' with xubuntu 15.04. Both OSes are working fine in UEFI mode. The thing is I am not sure what happened .... whether disabling UEFI then shutdown, restart , re-enable had flushed a buffer or if using the F10 option. I think it was a combination of both. Nonetheless... it's the first time Iv'e seen this work with Windows 8 bootloader without irreversible repair work. I'll try to document this a little more comphrehensively after some rest. All you U+1 testers .. thanks for encouragement , input and help.!

Regards..


whew ...

[sudodus]

Very interesting description and results

( in post #21- )

[sudodus]

hdd does not belong to Bill any longer. I opened a new thread on this. I was successful in detecting Windows bootloader and partioning 'alongside' with xubuntu 15.04. Both OSes are working fine in UEFI mode. The thing is I am not sure what happened .... whether disabling UEFI then shutdown, restart , re-enable had flushed a buffer or if using the F10 option. I think it was a combination of both. Nonetheless... it's the first time Iv'e seen this work with Windows 8 bootloader without irreversible repair work. I'll try to document this a little more comphrehensively after some rest. All you U+1 testers .. thanks for encouragement , input and help.!

Regards..


whew ...

Just helping others find your new interesting thread

Detecting Windows Bootloader in Ubiquity

[grahammechanical]

I have just come on the forum and I found this thread. See, the user's comments in the 6th post.

the problem now lies with the windows itself. Ok when i saw the boot menu shows me the 2 options 1 windows 2 usb ubuntu well I made 1 ubuntu and 2 windows. REstart and goes into a black window asking if i was to try ubuntu or install ubuntu. I tried for instaling ubuntu. Well it runs but the problem is when it says what do you want to do because it only says i can either choose to install ubuntu which will delete my hard drive because apparently there is no other operatign system it recognizes or do somethign else which sys do parton and soemthing. I went into the somethgn else make artition and wow I ran out of there i dont even know what i was lookign at. So yea is where i stand now either eraze my hard drive or do a partition which made me worry.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...0#post13199900

It looks to me that the re-install Ubuntu = erase the disk and the absence of an install alongside option are related. Fixing the re-install Ubuntu = erase disk is not enough unless it also fixes the missing Install Alongside option.

Regards.

[ventrical]

@graham and sudodus

From that same thread:

Sudodus wrote:


The start the installer and at the partitioning page select Something else. This time you need not create anything. Only select the partition, that you made for a root partition, mark that you want it as / (symbol for root partition), and format it with the ext4 file system. The swap partition will be selected automatically.

The swap partition will NOT be selectd automatically. You have to create it from the fee space left over and mark it as Primary/Swap. I know.. it sounds quirky but that's what I had to do.

[sudodus]

@graham and sudodus

From that same thread:



The swap partition will NOT be selectd automatically. You have to create it from the fee space left over and mark it as Primary/Swap. I know.. it sounds quirky but that's what I had to do.

Yes, you have to create the swap partition (or let the installer find an already existing partition). In this particular case, the OP was adviced to use gparted to create it (and also create a partition for the root file system). The according to my experience, swap will be selected automatically.

- at least in BIOS mode

- I have too little experience of UEFI to be sure if the automatic selection of swap works

[ventrical]

Yes, you have to create the swap partition (or let the installer find an already existing partition). In this particular case, the OP was adviced to use gparted to create it (and also create a partition for the root file system). The according to my experience, swap will be selected automatically.

- at least in BIOS mode

- I have too little experience of UEFI to be sure if the automatic selection of swap works

My misread.