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Thread: The future of 'click packages'. Eh?

  1. #11
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    Re: The future of 'click packages'. Eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    So the, I take it that if say, VLC Media Player or Pidgin Messenger or Rhythmbox (just to throw out a few examples) didn't make a "click package" then we still would not get newer versions of their applications and then we would still have to either add ppas for them or install the newer version manually?
    Correct.
    Application debs will continue to be imported from Debian on the 6-month release cycle. That's the discussion I have seen.
    Community members and teams that want to publish newer versions can use click packages and/or PPAs, and publish updates whenever they wish.


    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    If so, then the after convergence and Unity 8 arrives in 16.04, Ubuntu still would not be a fully rolling style release because only those apps or functions that click packages were developed for would actually roll into newer versions?
    Correct.


    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    Also, what about say, kernels? would they be click packages too?
    Debs remain debs, the heart of the system. Click packages must fit on top of the working system (made up entirely of debs), and interface with the system only through the published API. Click packages are not trusted by the system.
    To me, the kernel seems quite unsuitable for click. The existing kernel update security, testing, and distribution channel seems to work well enough.

  2. #12
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    Re: The future of 'click packages'. Eh?

    Thanks ian-weisser...that gives me a much CLEARER picture on how it will work
    I would imagine that, as far as kernels go, if the 6 month version was eliminated and replaced with that new version, then ubuntu would periodically update the kernel (through the software updater) for newer versions (using a deb package of course)...Also very likely, major used default apps like libreoffice, vlc player, pidgin, rhythmbox, etc would probably set up click packages...
    Last edited by craig10x; November 19th, 2014 at 07:14 PM.

  3. #13
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    Re: The future of 'click packages'. Eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    Also very likely, major used default apps like libreoffice, vlc player, pidgin, rhythmbox, etc would probably set up click packages...
    Perhaps, and perhaps not. You might want some of those applications' features to remain in the core.
    Click packages are not shared. Interaction and data-sharing is limited to what's available in the Ubuntu API. Core services cannot depend on transient click apps.

    Example: If a developer wants to display or export tabular data, it's a lot easier if the developer can trust that a core service capable of importing that data into a spreadsheet is available.

  4. #14
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    Re: The future of 'click packages'. Eh?

    I think I missed something...what exactly are you guys talking about? I haven't heard anything about click packages or their relationship to ubuntu... :/

  5. #15
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    Re: The future of 'click packages'. Eh?

    That has to do with when unity 8 becomes the default desktop (either in 15.10 or definitely by 16.04) At that point, there will be convergence between desktop/tablet/phone (the others were already done, desktop is being worked on)...part of it will be a new packaging system added (That's called click packages but they are not referred to by name in the article i linked below)...At that point, there is a pretty good chance the 6 month version of ubuntu will be eliminated and replaced by a version that will sort of "roll" in the sense that the desktop will be able to get new stuff much like say, your android phone does...And that's because the coding for all ubuntu versions will be the same even though the actual interface will vary according to the type of device it is installed on...

    This article will give you a better idea:
    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Canon...p-462117.shtml
    Last edited by craig10x; November 20th, 2014 at 05:53 AM.

  6. #16
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    Re: The future of 'click packages'. Eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ubuntuman001 View Post
    I think I missed something...what exactly are you guys talking about? I haven't heard anything about click packages or their relationship to ubuntu
    Debian packages build an awesome, stable desktop system, but have drawbacks for use on a phone.
    - The review and testing of new submissions takes too long, and won't scale up to thousands of new mobile apps.
    - Debian packaging is complex; many developers don't want to learn how to make debs.
    - Updates only every six months.
    - Requires admin password.
    - Handles namespace collisions poorly.

    Click packages are a new package format that address some of these shortcomings.
    Click packages _do_not_ replace debs. Your system is still built with debs. Click packages are user-level, user-facing applications that interface with the Unity API instead of with system shared libraries.
    - They are initially intended for small-screen, limited function apps (weather app, contacts app, small games, etc).
    - They are installed without sudo.
    - They are installed to /opt.
    - They cannot cannot install or remove any deb dependencies.
    - They update when the packager pushes an updated package; totally independent of Ubuntu's six-month cycle.
    - Ubuntu provides and supports a small set of Core Apps (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps) only. External developers will push the rest. Those developers don't need to become Ubuntu members or learn deb packaging.

  7. #17
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    Re: The future of 'click packages'. Eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    That has to do with when unity 8 becomes the default desktop ...
    Quote Originally Posted by ian-weisser View Post
    Debian packages build an awesome, stable desktop system ...
    Thanks both of you, I understand now.

  8. #18
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    Re: The future of 'click packages'. Eh?

    You are very welcome

    By the way, ian-weisser: You know, if you carefully read this paragraph from the article i linked (the quote from ubuntu desktop developer Will Cooke, He appears to be saying that the new version of ubuntu WOULD get most (not just some) of the new stuff as it becomes available, instead of having to wait 6 month periods to get it (when traditionally, the next 6 month version would come out)...and that includes the apps as well...

    Which actually makes sense, because if only some of the stuff would get updated, and the rest would stay stagnant, what would be the point? Mark Shuttleworth said he agrees with the developers that this will allow them to replace the 6 month version with this new, sort of rolling style version...

    Why the new Ubuntu desktop is so special

    You might think that it's just another update to the desktop environment, but Unity 8 is actually more than that. Because of the way Unity 8 is built, users will be able to get the latest version of most of the packages included in the OS right when they are released. They will no longer have to wait for a new version of Ubuntu to get a fresh build of an important application or library.

    "Traditionally a given release of Ubuntu has shipped with the versions of the applications available at the time of release. Important updates and security fixes are back-ported to older releases where required, but generally you had to wait for the next release to get the latest and greatest set of applications. The new desktop packaging system means that application developers can push updates out when they are ready and the user can benefit right away," says Will Cooke.
    Last edited by craig10x; November 20th, 2014 at 03:36 PM.

  9. #19
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    Re: The future of 'click packages'. Eh?

    I think we're reading into his words differently. And there's a bit or marketing spin in there, too.

    Yes, applications can be updated more frequently. No more waiting for the next release of Ubuntu to update to the bleeding edge release of an application...if those applications are click-ified and maintained by somebody not-Canonical.

    Nobody has committed to Ubuntu as a rolling release after Click packages go live. The term 'sort of rolling' applies to Click-packaged applications only. It's going to be huge for users - I'm thinking of the number of PPAs that can be replaced by Click packages.

    Nobody said anything about the 6-month testing and release cycle changing for the kernel, shared libs, system services, and applications that are all provided by debs, and will continue to be provided by debs.

    Sure, Will was positive on Click. I am too.

  10. #20
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    Re: The future of 'click packages'. Eh?

    Oh, i see what you are saying....so then the "click packages" can be used by the developers as a substitute for ppas...In that case, i would think that many of the major apps we use (like pidgin, video player, vlc media player, rhythmbox and so forth) would probably do it, so that's how we could more easily get new versions of apps...meanwhile, ubuntu itself will be doing updates on it's general structure, new kernels, etc...So, potentially, it could still develop into a kind of rolling ubuntu in a very "natural way" as it were

    Found another interesting softpedia article, this one specifically about click packages:
    http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubunt...e-464271.shtml
    Last edited by craig10x; November 20th, 2014 at 08:07 PM.

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