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Thread: Systemd discussion - during the V cycle

  1. #1
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    Systemd discussion - during the V cycle

    previous discussions during the U cycle are here

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    Re: Systemd discussion - during the V cycle

    @ Harry332: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...#post13151568:
    Code:
    :~$ dpkg -l|grep systemd|grep sysv
    ii  systemd-sysv                                          208-8ubuntu8 amd64        system and service manager - SysV links
    As soon it was available.
    @ Cafstan: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...#post13151636:
    Code:
    systemd-shim : Breaks: systemd (>= 209) but 215-5ubuntu1 is to be installed.
    Aptitude is a tool that I would not start U+1 without. If only >=209 were >209 or so many packages were not dependent (still) on systemd-shim. Patience is a clue for all that this early in U+1.
    Last edited by zika; October 27th, 2014 at 07:09 PM. Reason: bad formatting

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    Re: Systemd discussion - during the V cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by zika View Post
    @ Cafstan: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...#post13151636:
    Code:
    systemd-shim : Breaks: systemd (>= 209) but 215-5ubuntu1 is to be installed.
    Aptitude is a tool that I would not start U+1 without. If only >=209 were >209 or so many packages were not dependent (still) on systemd-shim. Patience is a clue for all that this early in U+1.
    @ziksta Are you running some sort of ppa for systemd? I don't see any version 209 of anything. But yes I am patient.

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    Re: Systemd discussion - during the V cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavsfan View Post
    @ziksta Are you running some sort of ppa for systemd? I don't see any version 209 of anything. But yes I am patient.
    No PPA for SystemD. Just package-master (of sort) decided that that should be version dependency condition, I suppose.
    Code:
    :~$ dpkg -l|grep systemd
    ii  libpam-systemd:amd64                                  208-8ubuntu8
                                amd64        system and service manager - PAM module
    ii  libsystemd-daemon0:amd64                              208-8ubuntu8
                                amd64        systemd utility library
    ii  libsystemd-journal0:amd64                             208-8ubuntu8
                                amd64        systemd journal utility library
    ii  libsystemd-login0:amd64                               208-8ubuntu8
                                amd64        systemd login utility library
    ii  systemd                                               208-8ubuntu8
                                amd64        system and service manager
    ii  systemd-gui                                           1:3-2
                                all          transitional package for systemd-ui
    rc  systemd-services                                      204-5ubuntu20.7
                                amd64        systemd runtime services
    ii  systemd-shim                                          8-4
                                amd64        shim for systemd
    ii  systemd-sysv                                          208-8ubuntu8
                                amd64        system and service manager - SysV links
    ii  systemd-ui                                            3-2
                                amd64        graphical frontend for systemd

  5. #5
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    Re: Systemd discussion - during the V cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavsfan View Post
    @ziksta Are you running some sort of ppa for systemd? I don't see any version 209 of anything. But yes I am patient.
    The last version originating from Utopic was 208.
    Now, the next version (in vivid proposed) is 215.
    See here:
    https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+...d/215-5ubuntu1

    I would also like to sum up some info about upstart, sysv and systemd.
    Utopic is using upstart, though it is already possible to switch into sysv and eventually to systemd.
    This is the case also in Vivid.

    So there are 3 options we have now.

    1) upstart
    - keeping upstart installed
    - not adding any init links in the kernel booting line

    2) sysv
    - keeping systemd-shim (emulates the systemd function) and cgmanager + libcgmanager0
    - using the kernel boot line: init=/lib/systemd/systemd

    3) systemd
    - installing systemd-sysv and removing systemd-shim, cgmanager, libcgmanager, upstart
    - using the kernel boot line: init=/lib/systemd/systemd

    With systemd-shim installed, systemd is using sysv booting from sbin/init.
    If systemd-sysv is installed (and thus systemd-shim removed) it will overwrite /sbin/init with a link to systemd.
    Last edited by harry332; October 26th, 2014 at 05:34 PM.

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    Re: Systemd discussion - during the V cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by harry332 View Post
    The last version originating from Utopic was 208.
    Now, the next version (in vivid proposed) is 215.
    See here:
    https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+...d/215-5ubuntu1

    I would also like to sum up some info about upstart, sysv and systemd.
    Utopic is using upstart, though it is already possible to switch into sysv and eventually to systemd.
    This is the case also in Vivid.

    So there are 3 options we have now.

    1) upstart
    - keeping upstart installed
    - not adding any init links in the kernel booting line

    2) sysv
    - removing upstart, but keeping systemd-shim
    - using the kernel boot line: init=/lib/systemd/systemd

    3) systemd
    - installing systemd-sysv and removing systemd-shim, cgmanager, libcgmanager, upstart
    - using the kernel boot line: init=/lib/systemd/systemd

    With systemd-shim installed systemd is using sysv booting from sbin/init.
    If systemd-sysv is installed (and thus systemd-shim removed) it will overwrite /sbin/init with a link to systemd.
    In cases 2) (which is as I see and from experience even impossible i.e. end up in 3) since removing upstart installs systemd-sysv automatically) and 3) kernel boot line init= switch is not required to use SystemD. At least that is my experience as I wrote repeatedly. *)
    In case 3) You loose more than You've displayed**):
    Code:
    :~$ sudo apt-get purge systemd-shim -s
    Reading package lists... Done
    Building dependency tree
    Reading state information... Done
    The following packages will be REMOVED:
      indicator-datetime* systemd-shim* ubuntu-desktop* unity-control-center*
      unity-control-center-signon* webaccounts-extension-common*
      xul-ext-webaccounts*
    0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 7 to remove and 10 not upgraded.
    Purg xul-ext-webaccounts [0.5-0ubuntu2]
    Purg webaccounts-extension-common [0.5-0ubuntu2]
    Purg unity-control-center-signon [0.1.7~+14.10.20140814-0ubuntu1]
    Purg ubuntu-desktop [1.327]
    Purg unity-control-center [14.10.0+14.10.20140922-0ubuntu2]
    Purg indicator-datetime [13.10.0+14.10.20141009-0ubuntu1]
    Purg systemd-shim [8-4]
    As I've wrote, there are several packages that are to be renewed in order to be able to do what You're proposing and since we are even before toolchain I see nothing more appropriate than a little patience.
    Update₁: For sake of testing I've performed „downgrade“ on one machine installing again UpStart (which removed SystemDSysV and I've reinstalled UReadAhead, FriendlyRecovery which were removed when removing UpStart) and I kind of cornered myself while painting the floor since SystemDSysV is now uninstallable due to 209/215 version dependency conundrum explained earlier. That looks more like present situation in vanilla Vivid install, it works nicely and awaits solution in proposed repositora about the faith of SystemD. Just thought that You should know, not having to go through all that Yourself. Yes, systemD is not fully ready for Vivid but it is well and kicking as is UpStart also. In futire days I think we will see full removal of Upstart, at the time when SystemD penetrated all neccessary packages and when all interconnections are ready. Greeting from Upstart machine that I've painted myself into the corner on.
    Update₂: Just to clarify, not to leave impression that anybody else trying aforementioned would really corner h{im,er}self. SystemDSysV could be DL-ed (version -1) and used to get again hold of UpStart free install etc. Or, simply, vivid-proposed could be defeated for a while, apt database updated, and -1 version of SystemDSysV would be applied in all further apt doings until vivid-proposed is enabled again or that package get into regular repos. Just got some (rare) spare time and thought to disperse possible FUD I might have unintentionally started.
    *Note: I do have vivid-proposed enabled so all my aforementioned experiences are with that factor involved. Your mileage due to vivid-proposed disabled might vary.
    **Note: This is true regardless of vivid-proposed enabled or not.
    Last edited by zika; October 26th, 2014 at 12:55 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Systemd discussion - during the V cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by zika View Post
    In cases 2) (which is as I see and from experience even impossible i.e. end up in 3) since removing upstart installs systemd-sysv automatically) and 3) kernel boot line init= switch is not required to use SystemD. At least that is my experience as I wrote repeatedly. *)
    In case 3) You loose more than You've displayed**):
    Code:
    :~$ sudo apt-get purge systemd-shim -s
    Reading package lists... Done
    Building dependency tree
    Reading state information... Done
    The following packages will be REMOVED:
      indicator-datetime* systemd-shim* ubuntu-desktop* unity-control-center*
      unity-control-center-signon* webaccounts-extension-common*
      xul-ext-webaccounts*
    0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 7 to remove and 10 not upgraded.
    Purg xul-ext-webaccounts [0.5-0ubuntu2]
    Purg webaccounts-extension-common [0.5-0ubuntu2]
    Purg unity-control-center-signon [0.1.7~+14.10.20140814-0ubuntu1]
    Purg ubuntu-desktop [1.327]
    Purg unity-control-center [14.10.0+14.10.20140922-0ubuntu2]
    Purg indicator-datetime [13.10.0+14.10.20141009-0ubuntu1]
    Purg systemd-shim [8-4]
    As I've wrote, there are several packages that are to be renewed in order to be able to do what You're proposing and since we are even before toolchain I see nothing more appropriate than a little patience.
    Update₁: For sake of testing I've performed „downgrade“ on one machine installing again UpStart (which removed SystemDSysV and I've reinstalled UReadAhead, FriendlyRecovery which were removed when removing UpStart) and I kind of cornered myself while painting the floor since SystemDSysV is now uninstallable due to 209/215 version dependency conundrum explained earlier. That looks more like present situation in vanilla Vivid install, it works nicely and awaits solution in proposed repositora about the faith of SystemD. Just thought that You should know, not having to go through all that Yourself. Yes, systemD is not fully ready for Vivid but it is well and kicking as is UpStart also. In futire days I think we will see full removal of Upstart, at the time when SystemD penetrated all neccessary packages and when all interconnections are ready. Greeting from Upstart machine that I've painted myself into the corner on.
    Update₂: Just to clarify, not to leave impression that anybody else trying aforementioned would really corner h{im,er}self. SystemDSysV could be DL-ed (version -1) and used to get again hold of UpStart free install etc. Or, simply, vivid-proposed could be defeated for a while, apt database updated, and -1 version of SystemDSysV would be applied in all further apt doings until vivid-proposed is enabled again or that package get into regular repos. Just got some (rare) spare time and thought to disperse possible FUD I might have unintentionally started.
    *Note: I do have vivid-proposed enabled so all my aforementioned experiences are with that factor involved. Your mileage due to vivid-proposed disabled might vary.
    **Note: This is true regardless of vivid-proposed enabled or not.
    You were right about the option 2 being incorrect.
    I have now made corrections to it.

    In your case uninstalling systemd-shim (8-4) removes more packages than in my setup, because I do not have Unity DE installed.

    Then, about the init=/lib/systemd/systemd kernel boot line.
    My setup will not boot at all without that line, it leads to kernel panic instead.

    But as you have systemd-shim (8-4) installed, you do not have systemd (215) at all.
    You see systemd-shim (8-4) breaks systemd (>=209).
    For systemd (215) you need the newest systemd-shim (8-4build1).
    Last edited by harry332; October 26th, 2014 at 05:35 PM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Systemd discussion - during the V cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by harry332 View Post
    But as you have systemd-shim (8-4) installed, you do not have systemd (215) at all.
    You see systemd-shim (8-4) breaks systemd (>=209).
    For systemd (215) you need the newest systemd-shim (8-4build1).
    As I've emphasized more that once. Not to mention stuff between code-tags.
    Quote Originally Posted by harry332 View Post
    Then, about the init=/bin/systemd kernel boot line.
    My setup will not boot at all without that line, it leads to kernel panic instead.
    I suspect that You have some relicts of UpStart that You did not remove/purge completely.

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    Re: Systemd discussion - during the V cycle

    Vivid-proposed got complete:
    Code:
    The following packages will be upgraded:
       libpam-systemd (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
       libsystemd-daemon0 (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
       libsystemd-journal0 (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
       libsystemd-login0 (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
       libudev1 (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
       systemd (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
       systemd-shim (8-4 => 8-4build1)
       systemd-sysv (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
       udev (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
    9 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
    Need to get 15,4 kB/3605 kB of archives.
    After this operation, 7268 kB of additional disk space will be used.
    Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
    Left, now, is to figure out
    Code:
    dpkg: warning: unable to delete old directory '/etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants': Directory not empty
    and
    Code:
    Created symlink from /etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants/getty@tty1.service to /lib/systemd/system/getty@.service.
    Created symlink from /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/remote-fs.target to /lib/systemd/system/remote-fs.target.
    Last edited by zika; October 26th, 2014 at 03:12 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Systemd discussion - during the V cycle

    Quote Originally Posted by zika View Post
    As I've emphasized more that once. Not to mention stuff between code-tags.
    I suspect that You have some relicts of UpStart that You did not remove/purge completely.
    Well I did purge upstart, cdmanager, libcgmanager0 and systemd-shim.
    So possible upstart remnants are not the cause.
    Have you tried to boot with systemd (215) without the kernel line?
    You see the 215 version does not work as well as 208 here.

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