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Thread: Why does everyone hate Ubuntu?

  1. #61
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    Re: Why does everyone hate Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    Also...what is it about the unity desktop that you feel you must customize? what would you do to it? I'll admit it would be nice if they provided the option of moving it to the bottom, but that's not super critical to me as i have gotten use to it being on the left...and now they offer the option of putting menus back in the windows (a feature i love and use now) but what else? I mean you can shrink the pixel size of the icons (which i do) auto-hide it (which i do also) adjust the auto-hide sensitivity (which i do...lol)...you can even add a "fan out" apps menu to use instead of dash search (which i don't...i like the dash search)...turn off the dash search online searches (which i do)...

    sounds like plenty of customization is available already...

    So, what else? make the dock pink?

    I suspect those that say that unity desktop doesn't lend itself to customization and therefore that is why they don't use it is really a "smoke and mirrors" way of saying i just like the old fashioned desktop and don't want to use anything new...
    But if I don't like anything about the way it's set up, and I can't do anything to change it at all, then why should I just be happy about it when there are other choices?

    Quote Originally Posted by slooksterpsv View Post
    Alrighty since I forgot about this thread let me start with this:

    Unity - you don't have control over what you can put on the top panel (without extensive digging in a configuration editor... is it deconf-editor? something like that); you can pretty much only control your background or icons or what appears on your desktop (icon wise) other than that it's all 3rd party implementations to do certain things.

    With XFCE (for example, as that's the one I'm running) I can create new panels, add items to them, stack them, make them hide, add additional indicators (easily).

    The post was originally about Ubuntu and I figured Ubuntu's default DE (Unity). Which a lot of users were upset about the lack of customization and the ability to make it their "own". If it were about the OS underlying features in general (debian package management, etc.) that'd be a different story. As far as I care. Unity DE doesn't fit me. Gnome 2 was perfect, XFCE is comparable. That sums it up for me.

    Additionally - why not MATE? No current support in 13.10 without the use of a PPA - official repository support in 14.04 perfect, someone will more than likely make a MATEbuntu or whatever.
    Exactly. These are great examples of what we mean by customizable.

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeybrain20122 View Post
    Speaking for myself I have no problem that a reasonable person may want something different. A simple "it doesn't work for me" is good enough. But I do have a problem with people speaking as though there is only one way to design a DE (Windows 95) and that Unity is bad because it deviates from the One True Way and then throw temper tantrums against Ubuntu and Canonical: it takes away our choice, it ruins the desktop, it betrays Linux, it has gone down the wrong path blah blah blah all because of Unity. "Haters" are not reasonable.

    Also if one is making an objective point about Unity then one should expect disagreements if that turns out to be not true or debatable (such as Unity cannot be productive, or many people hate Unity: many of us also love it, or Unity cannot be customized: it may not be customizable the way some people want, like to look like Windows XP; it may discourage certain customizations like putting icons all over the panel or desktop, but it can be done)
    Well, I was one of the people talking about Unity's lack of customization options, but you're not describing me in any way. I'm not someone who wants customization just because I want to make Linux look like Windows. In fact, well before anyone even knew about Unity, I was a big proponent for the mockups they showed us for Gnome 3, because I was excited about the new paradigm. When Gnome 3 came out, I loved it, but I was pretty disappointed with how hard it is to customize. But at least they gave us the option for Gnome Shell Extensions, which helps a lot in the customization area. I actually like KDE a lot because I can pretty much make my desktop exactly how I want it. Believe me, I have really tried to like Unity, but I just can't get into it. It just doesn't work for me.
    Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You. - Dr. Seuss

  2. #62
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    Re: Why does everyone hate Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by forrestcupp View Post
    But if I don't like anything about the way it's set up, and I can't do anything to change it at all, then why should I just be happy about it when there are other choices?
    You don't need to be "happy" with Unity. Just find something you like and move on.

    People who write software are in the same position as other creative people. They make something and hope other people will like it. That's all they can do.

    No more reason exists for *one* interface to satisfy all computer users than a reason exists for one novel, or one movie, or one piece of music, to satisfy everyone. Do you read a book, decide it is *the* book, and conclude you need to read no more books, and that anyone reading another book is making a grave mistake?

  3. #63
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    Re: Why does everyone hate Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by forrestcupp View Post

    Exactly. These are great examples of what we mean by customizable.
    ..
    I actually like KDE a lot because I can pretty much make my desktop exactly how I want it. Believe me, I have really tried to like Unity, but I just can't get into it. It just doesn't work for me.
    ...
    Well by the same logic xfce & lxde are not customizable either. How do I customize them to be like Unity? I don't like the classic menu, I don't want to pile up icons on my desktop.How do I do that in xfce and lxde? No, I can't. They don't have anything that look or work like the dash (synapse is text only). In kde you can reproduce the look of the dash with homerun or the rosa-launcher (sp?) but their search ability is very limited. On the other hand I can easily install a classic menu in Unity even though I don't find it desirable.

    Why is the ability to stack up panels and cluttering them with indicator icons (how many do one use really?) is essential to customization, while being able to access applications and files quickly is not??

    How am I able to switch and pick desktop smoothly in lxde and xfce? Yes, install compiz, but Unity comes with compiz already (and compiz on lxde can be glitchy because of desktop manager conflicts)

    I think when we speak about customization, a set of use cases and scenarios is implied, there is no absolute standard. Unity lacks customization only for things certain people do which are not very compatible with its goal and work flow. likewise xfce, lxde and kde have their own design logic and they are not very customizable for use cases that don't conform to it.

    Kde may be very customizable in terms of panels, gadgets etc. But it is very hard to customize what you install because its design is not modular (nepomuk?? Why installing okular in gnome pulls in nepomuk?? this is just one example), and it is not very easy to change theme (strange things happen in Firefox search boxes and certain gtk applications if you use a dark theme, e.g) BTW, the abundance of options also makes kde very buggy. Last I checked with Fedora 19 many of the plasma widgets didn't even work.

    Edited: I also find that the desire to "customize" ,at least for me, is directly proportional to my dislike of the default. So I spend very little time to customize unity, but a lot on kde and find it inflexible despite the many options (because, you see I was trying to do things contrary to kde's design goal so customizing in those ways was awkward, the options are only for those who accept the premise of the kde way)
    Last edited by monkeybrain20122; March 18th, 2014 at 12:07 AM.

  4. #64
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    Re: Why does everyone hate Ubuntu?

    This has turned into a discussion that has been had many times previously.

    Therefore, Thread moved to Recurring Discussions.
    Please, people, remember to BACKUP before you install that new system. Same if you're upgrading.

  5. #65
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    Re: Why does everyone hate Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzingrobot View Post
    You don't need to be "happy" with Unity. Just find something you like and move on.

    People who write software are in the same position as other creative people. They make something and hope other people will like it. That's all they can do.

    No more reason exists for *one* interface to satisfy all computer users than a reason exists for one novel, or one movie, or one piece of music, to satisfy everyone. Do you read a book, decide it is *the* book, and conclude you need to read no more books, and that anyone reading another book is making a grave mistake?
    Quote Originally Posted by monkeybrain20122 View Post
    Well by the same logic xfce & lxde are not customizable either. How do I customize them to be like Unity? I don't like the classic menu, I don't want to pile up icons on my desktop.How do I do that in xfce and lxde? No, I can't. They don't have anything that look or work like the dash (synapse is text only). In kde you can reproduce the look of the dash with homerun or the rosa-launcher (sp?) but their search ability is very limited. On the other hand I can easily install a classic menu in Unity even though I don't find it desirable.

    Why is the ability to stack up panels and cluttering them with indicator icons (how many do one use really?) is essential to customization, while being able to access applications and files quickly is not??

    How am I able to switch and pick desktop smoothly in lxde and xfce? Yes, install compiz, but Unity comes with compiz already (and compiz on lxde can be glitchy because of desktop manager conflicts)

    I think when we speak about customization, a set of use cases and scenarios is implied, there is no absolute standard. Unity lacks customization only for things certain people do which are not very compatible with its goal and work flow. likewise xfce, lxde and kde have their own design logic and they are not very customizable for use cases that don't conform to it.

    Kde may be very customizable in terms of panels, gadgets etc. But it is very hard to customize what you install because its design is not modular (nepomuk?? Why installing okular in gnome pulls in nepomuk?? this is just one example), and it is not very easy to change theme (strange things happen in Firefox search boxes and certain gtk applications if you use a dark theme, e.g) BTW, the abundance of options also makes kde very buggy. Last I checked with Fedora 19 many of the plasma widgets didn't even work.

    Edited: I also find that the desire to "customize" ,at least for me, is directly proportional to my dislike of the default. So I spend very little time to customize unity, but a lot on kde and find it inflexible despite the many options (because, you see I was trying to do things contrary to kde's design goal so customizing in those ways was awkward, the options are only for those who accept the premise of the kde way)
    I don't think you guys understand what I was getting at. I wasn't saying there is anything wrong with people liking Unity. The only thing I was disagreeing with was when craig10x was basically saying that Unity is perfect so nobody should ever even have a need to customize it. All I was ever saying is that Unity may be perfect for some people, but that doesn't mean it's perfect for everyone. If I like Pop Tarts better than Toaster Strudels, it would be silly for me to tell somebody they shouldn't like Toaster Strudels because Pop Tarts are good just how they are. So why should someone tell me I shouldn't want customization because they think Unity is perfect?

    I didn't even want to get into a Unity hate argument. My only point was innocently that part of the draw of Linux has always been customization, and Unity doesn't allow for much of that. That's all. Thankfully Linux, itself, still allows for a lot of choice.
    Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You. - Dr. Seuss

  6. #66
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    Re: Why does everyone hate Ubuntu?

    What i was saying is that unity can be customized in most ways (except moving it's location on the screen) by default now and even more options are available through the tweak app..as i said earlier...what else would you want to do with it that would make any sense? It's a dock..it has icons that you click on to open apps...it has a search function to locates stuff...if you don't like a dock centric way of doing things, then the answer is not to try to tear unity apart and make it something else...you then simply use one of the alternate desktops...

    So, bottom line is, you use unity desktop if you like it...and if you don't, you use something else...no amount of what you call "customizing" is going to make it work differently then it already does...
    As was pointed out, even with say, kde...sure you can customize but you can't really change the basic STRUCTURE of how the environment works...

    Kubuntu has a slab menu and a lower panel....so does mint's cinnamon..they doesn't change because you do customizations and tweaks on them...they still operate in the same manner...

    Then you might argue...well i can't throw whatever icons i wanted on the unity panel or move it to the bottom...well, that's because it is set up to be best optimized as a top panel, left side dock bar and auto search on top left..and as for adding apps to the top panel, well that is what the dock is for....c'mon...have some logic here...
    Last edited by craig10x; March 18th, 2014 at 06:09 AM.

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    Re: Why does everyone hate Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    Kubuntu has a slab menu and a lower panel....so does mint's cinnamon..they doesn't change because you do customizations and tweaks on them...they still operate in the same manner...

    Actually in Kubuntu you can get rid of the slab menu and use homerun which kind of looks like the dash, but its functions are very limited in comparison and it is a third party application that needs to be compiled from source for most KDE distros (it has a ppa for Kubuntu) But try to change themes in KDE, many dark themes break gtk and Firefox and there has been a bug report on KDE's page for several years but has not been really fixed (there are some work arounds but all hits and misses) Now changing theme is a very basic customization I think.
    Last edited by monkeybrain20122; March 18th, 2014 at 02:32 AM.

  8. #68
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    Re: Why does everyone hate Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    What i was saying is that unity can be customized in most ways (except moving it's location on the screen) by default now and even more options are available through the tweak app..as i said earlier...what else would you want to do with it that would make any sense? It's a dock..it has icons that you click on to open apps...it has a search function to locates stuff...if you don't like a dock centric way of doing things, then the answer is not to try to tear unity apart and make it something else...you then simply use one of the alternate desktops...

    So, bottom line is, you use unity desktop if you like it...and if you don't, you use something else...no amount of what you call "customizing" is going to make it work differently then it already does...
    As was pointed out, even with say, kde...sure you can customize but you can't really change the basic STRUCTURE of how the environment works...

    Kubuntu has a slab menu and a lower panel....so does mint's cinnamon..they doesn't change because you do customizations and tweaks on them...they still operate in the same manner...

    Then you might argue...well i can't throw whatever icons i wanted on the unity panel or move it to the bottom...well, that's because it is set up to be best optimized as a top panel, left side dock bar and auto search on top left..and as for adding apps to the top panel, well that is what the dock is for....c'mon...have some logic here...
    So basically, we're in agreement, and you're saying what I was trying to say. If you like Unity how it is, use it. If not, use something else because you can't change Unity to be something it's not.

    Sorry guys. I'm glad we have so many choices even within Ubuntu. Everyone has the ability to be happy.
    Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You. - Dr. Seuss

  9. #69
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    Re: Why does everyone hate Ubuntu?

    Exactly forrestcupp...unity is really set up in the maximized way already, so there really isn't anything to be changed (other then the minor preference tweaks if one prefers to use of which i use several as i mentioned before)...so if you like it like as i do...you use it and if not, then you use something else...

    That way, everyone is a happy ubuntu-ite

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    Re: Why does everyone hate Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by endlessinstant View Post
    One of the things that you have to understand about Linux is that all of its forms attract a wide variety of different people. Some people, militants like the Richard Stahlmans of the world, go so far as to criticize Debian itself for simply allowing for the possibility of nonfree software being easily distributed. Never mind what Ubuntu does with a platform for PAID apps.
    We should not forget that Richard Stallman is one of the founding fathers of what we now call 'Linux'. As the founder of the free software movement and the creator of the GNU Project (10 years or so before Linus created the kernel) he has the right to make his opinions known. Which he never fails to do .
    You think that's air you're breathing now?

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