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Thread: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

  1. #21
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by xb12x2 View Post
    The original poster is an engeenering student, not your mother. He asked which language of these three, Python, C#, Java, he should learn. He did not ask for the easiest one of the three to learn. At this time I think Java will give the best return on his investment. Especially as PC sales dwindle and tablet sales explode.
    As far as I can see, the original poster is an engineering student making a survey for a project, not asking for what language would be best for him to learn. Your points might still be valid, but he asked what language would be best for a generic beginner, not himself.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by xb12x2 View Post
    Define "most suitable". Nowhere does it say "easiest".
    You haven't said one thing for why java is suitable, except for 'b-b-but industry'.
    It's like saying you should learn how to autocad in your intro architecture classes because that's what you will do slaving for money, before even grasping how to draw by hand and what the rules governing perspective are.
    Where is the problem with switching to java after few months, in programming 102 if necessary, once you know what boolean logic, if, for-loop and while-loop are?

    Most suitable for a beginner is the one that sells the basic concepts of the craft in the easiest, most comprehensible way. Python does that, java does not because it comes with lots of overhead that is a pure waste of brainpower at this stage.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Odexios View Post
    As far as I can see, the original poster is an engineering student making a survey for a project, not asking for what language would be best for him to learn.
    That's a good point. So the question is "What is the best language for the project?"

    My take was "What language will best help entry-level professionals that have not yet decided on a specific area?"

    Those are both less vague questions than "What language is best to learn to program?"
    And since the original poster gave three, and only three specific languages (C#, Python, Java) I don't think this is the question. He listed these three languages because he has a goal beyond just learning to program.
    Last edited by xb12x2; February 13th, 2014 at 08:16 PM.

  4. #24
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaphell View Post
    You haven't said one thing for why java is suitable, except for 'b-b-but industry'.
    I'm sorry if I offended you.

    However, 'b-b-but industry' is a valid argument.

  5. #25
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    To the original poster: Your very short list of languages to choose from causes confusion as to what you're actually asking.

    If you want to know the best language to learn programming, you might consider not constraining the answer to such a very short list of three languages. With such a short list there is a very good chance the correct answer lies outside that list.

    If, however, you selected those three languages for specific reasons, please tell us what those reasons are.

  6. #26
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by xb12x2 View Post
    I'm sorry if I offended you.

    However, 'b-b-but industry' is a valid argument.
    No it's not. Languages come and go. N years ago it would be b-b-but industry COBOL, M years ago it would be b-b-but industry C/C++ or pascal or whatever. Do you stumble upon these languages often on your average day?

    Programming 101 has nothing to do with industry, everything with the basics.
    Last edited by Vaphell; February 13th, 2014 at 09:57 PM.
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  7. #27

    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by xb12x2 View Post
    My take was "What language will best help entry-level professionals that have not yet decided on a specific area?"
    And your answer was "Java"? *raises eyebrow skeptically*

    Are you the xb12x who wrote this? I would have thought you'd appreciate that Java is only a relatively insignificant portion of modern software development. To then suggest learning Java to people who have no particular interest or inclination towards it, solely on the strength of Android, doesn't seem right to me. In particular, when faced with a choice between Java and a comparably powerful, easier-to-learn language with less syntactic cruft, a shorter edit-compile-run cycle and more flexibility in code structure, choosing Java just seems nonsensical. Unless one starts out with the goal of doing Android development (and even then...).

  8. #28
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by xb12x2 View Post
    I'm sorry if I offended you.

    However, 'b-b-but industry' is a valid argument.
    Not really... if you know a bit of OO in another language (Python, for instance), you can put Java in your resume, and learn in in two days if you have an interview, and this will put you in the same standing as other candidates who learned Java in school. Because "the industry" is not about Java. The industry is about frameworks around Java. They want people who know Spring, Hibernate, JSP, EJBs... But since these frameworks change every two years and project architects follow "code fashion" (they call it "best practices") the really important thing is to convince a potential employer that you can be to proficient quickly with any framework that will be thrown at you. And this is more easily done when you know several things than when your computing horizon stops at java.nio(*).

    (*) This afternoon I drafted for my PM the skills required for new hires. Java was a teeny-weeny part...
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  9. #29
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by trent.josephsen View Post
    And your answer was "Java"? *raises eyebrow skeptically*

    Are you the xb12x who wrote this?
    Yes. I lost my original login account during Ubuntu's breach awhile back.

    Quote Originally Posted by trent.josephsen View Post
    I would have thought you'd appreciate that Java is only a relatively insignificant portion of modern software development. To then suggest learning Java to people who have no particular interest or inclination towards it, solely on the strength of Android, doesn't seem right to me.
    But he does have an interest in Java, else why is it in his list?

    Quote Originally Posted by trent.josephsen View Post
    In particular, when faced with a choice between Java and a comparably powerful, easier-to-learn language with less syntactic cruft, a shorter edit-compile-run cycle and more flexibility in code structure, choosing Java just seems nonsensical.
    So my answer is nonsensical because you don't agree with my reasons?

    Perhaps it seems nonsensical to you because you assume his goal is ONLY to learn programming regardless of what he might actually program. I don't think that's so, else (again) why such a short, specific list? His list tends to frame his question (at least to me).

    All things considered, I would probably teach C in my Introduction to programming 101 class. C is still the most popular language in use today (and I'm a system-level developer). Or maybe Lisp, or Smalltalk, or GO, or Julia, or even Pascal. But those were NOT in his LIST.

    Quote Originally Posted by trent.josephsen View Post
    Unless one starts out with the goal of doing Android development (and even then...).
    Java is also very popular on Windows and Linux, more popular than Python, actually. Whether it should be is not the question: Yes, I like Python better than Java. I also like spending money more than earning it.

    It would be wise for any university student to consider how the industry he hopes to enter is changing. Like it or not, PC sales are dwindling, to the extent that many experts claim we're in the post-PC era.

  10. #30
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by xb12x2 View Post
    Yes. I lost my original login account during Ubuntu's breach awhile back.
    You know, that can probably be fixed by starting a thread in the Resolution Centre
    (Apologies for going off-topic...)
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