ToriOS

[amjjawad]

Hi,

The Name

Tori ( 鳥 ) means Bird in Japanese. A bird is a symbol for freedom which this project is all about.

http://torios.top/

The Announcement

Ali, the founder of ToriOS has announced in 14th of January, 2014, “the beginning of a new era for Old Hardware” and quite possibly a full featured replacement for Windows XP.
ToriOS – a GNU/Linux Distribution – is the best option for NON-PAE machines.


General Features

Minimal, Simple, Fast, Small.
ToriOS aims to give users the freedom of choice to build a system the way they want it, and in just the way they like.


Technical Features

1. ToriOS will always be based on the Long Term Support releases of Debian and Ubuntu, and be a Long Term Support Operating System
2. There will be very minimal programs by default. The user has 100% freedom to choose, download and install any program needed, wanted or desired. ToriOS will work out-of-the-box with this very lightweight system. The user can then decide the rest. ToriOS is planned to ship with a minimal, fully functional graphical user interface.
3. Working old computers with NON-PAE CPUs, and other low resource computers, will not need to be wasted in landfills. ToriOS will be the system to breathe new life into systems that seem to be useless.
ToriOS will use Non-PAE Kernel.
4. RAM Usage will be as minimal as possible – the target is to create a system that uses less RAM than Lubuntu (and other distributions).
5. ToriOS will have a lightweight option for the default installer. Ubiquity (Ubuntu’s default installer), as everyone may know, needs more than 256MB RAM at the best and in some cases, it requires even more.

Why ToriOS?

1. The latest versions of Ubuntu and its official variants, specifically Lubuntu, do not support NON-PAE hardware by default.
2. While everyone can download, install and build a system with the Mini ISO, some users have difficulties doing it. The installation of ToriOS will be much simpler than installing the Mini ISO.
3. ToriOS will work out-of-the box. ToriOS will also provide a working system with a Graphical User Interface after installation, as well as one to test out on machines using a Live CD, this is contrary to the Mini ISO where there is NO GUI, only a command line interface.
4. ToriOS is so special because of the community (team). It is based on open, transparent team work. The community is very friendly, and work as a family. No decision, no matter what, is made unless everyone votes and the majority agree. It took 3 days to decide a name for this project because everyone had to vote for it. This gives the community full creative input.

Thank you!

[amjjawad]

1- Website is up and running but still under constructions.

2- Some roles are not yet filled. We need interested and dedicated people for this project. We had someone for the Development but sadly she didn't wish to carry on and decided to focus on her own project.

The current team members are working hard to move things forward. While we don't have someone in charge for the Artwork Team, Rafeal (Lubuntu Artwork Team Leader) has offered his help. He is so supportive and he is a good friend of mine.

Anyone is more than welcome to join.

If you have any question in mind, please ask

Thank you!

[Tar_Ni]

Very interesting!

This is exactly the kind of OS I need for my 1GB RAM, 2,8 Ghz proc and 80gig Hard drive. Lubuntu doesn't work well on it, due to sound issues. Booting the PC I had no sound then rebooting I got some.. and so on and so forth..

I just hope you guys don't plan to use the LXDE desktop environment otherwise I'll have to stay away from it, as my hardware doesn't seem do be fully recognized in it.. Not sure why. I've tried Peppermint OS, LXLE, ZorinOS LXDE and the same thing happened in all of them. Either annoying sounds issues again or the keyboard would not set properly regardless of what I tried with any LXDE OS I used. It shouldn't be such a pain for these basics. I am not saying it's no good though, simply that it doesn't work for me.

And keep the Ubuntu installer! I found that when it's too complicated to install an OS, the beginners will give up. (Linux Puppy is a good exemple at least to me)

[lykwydchykyn]

Was just looking over your discussions on WM/DE on launchpad. I'm not sure the thing you're looking for exists. You don't want LXDE or XFCE or any of their components, but you want something aimed at users of XP that looks nice. Hrm...

I've spent a lot of time with lightweight distros and piecing together desktop environments from lightweight components over the years. There's a reason why LXDE was created; piecing together a basic DE is easy, but making it cohesive and user-friendly is another thing. Making it all that, and then making it not look like 1998 warmed over is another feat yet.

I'd suggest looking at some of these distros and how they approach the desktop stack:

- Vector Linux Light
- Porteus
- Puppy Linux Wary
- Tinycore CorePlus
- Slitaz

Also, rather than trimming down the desktop environment, you might consider using a lighter X server like TinyX, XVesa, or XFBdev. X11 itself is a beast on 10+ yr-old systems, no matter what you run in it.

[amjjawad]

Hi and thanks for posting

Very interesting!

This is exactly the kind of OS I need for my 1GB RAM, 2,8 Ghz proc and 80gig Hard drive.

ToriOS will be designed to work on even less powerful machines than yours, that is our target

Is your machine a NON-PAE?

Lubuntu doesn't work well on it, due to sound issues. Booting the PC I had no sound then rebooting I got some.. and so on and so forth..

So the only problem with Lubuntu is the sound issue?

I just hope you guys don't plan to use the LXDE desktop environment otherwise I'll have to stay away from it, as my hardware doesn't seem do be fully recognized in it.. Not sure why.

LXDE is not an option. We're not planning to create a new system with LXDE because there are Lubuntu and others with LXDE already.

I'm a former team leader for Lubuntu. I know almost all the strengths and the weakness of Lubuntu. LXDE has some bugs that aren't yet fixed which I personally don't like and would like to stay away from. Not to mention, LXDE is not the lightest DE

I've tried Peppermint OS, LXLE, ZorinOS LXDE and the same thing happened in all of them. Either annoying sounds issues again or the keyboard would not set properly regardless of what I tried with any LXDE OS I used. It shouldn't be such a pain for these basics. I am not saying it's no good though, simply that it doesn't work for me.

Yes, I totally understand what you mean. For me, Lubuntu worked the best to my needs but then some bugs that aren't fixed and while all my machines are PAE and I have no problem with that, there are many with NON-PAE machines and I'd like to draw a smile on their face. I think it is a mistake to leave them without support while someone can do something.

And keep the Ubuntu installer! I found that when it's too complicated to install an OS, the beginners will give up. (Linux Puppy is a good exemple at least to me)

Yes, I know what you mean. This is one of the challenges we have. OBI Founder has replied. We need to study our options carefully.

Thank you again for your post

Feel free to join our team on Launchpad if you're interested to help!

[amjjawad]

Hello and thanks for posting

Was just looking over your discussions on WM/DE on launchpad. I'm not sure the thing you're looking for exists. You don't want LXDE or XFCE or any of their components, but you want something aimed at users of XP that looks nice. Hrm...

Oh, but just to make sure we both at the same page, the aim is not really to have something nice as XFCE or LXDE (yes, some think it is beautiful and like it while others don't - I'm still contributing to LXDE project anyway) but rather something 'Lightweight' or 'Very Lightweight'

One of ToriOS member did a test on Debain and this is what he sent me:

I'm a bit in hurry, just some short sentences. Xfwm4 was a bad idea, with all the things a user needs (menu, something to draw the desktop) the memory usage was quickly around 60 MB, and it wasn't even 'fullfeatured'.
The best result I could achieve was E17, with 47 MB RAM usage. Conditions were: no display manager (like LightDM), no nm-applet, but with audio control and stuff. I used Debian testing for rapid prototyping.

I've spent a lot of time with lightweight distros and piecing together desktop environments from lightweight components over the years. There's a reason why LXDE was created; piecing together a basic DE is easy, but making it cohesive and user-friendly is another thing. Making it all that, and then making it not look like 1998 warmed over is another feat yet.

It is good to know someone who has experience with lightweight DEs

As started on my previous post, I was one of the most active members of Lubuntu Community but had to seek a different challenge when the direction of the project was moving on a path that I couldn't carry on with.

You're right, each task is a challenge. We know that it is not going to be easy at all. We're looking now for a skilled developers to help us.

I'd suggest looking at some of these distros and how they approach the desktop stack:

- Vector Linux Light
- Porteus
- Puppy Linux Wary
- Tinycore CorePlus
- Slitaz

I'm a huge fan of SliTaz. Yet, ToriOS supposed to be different in the way it will offer the packages and being based on Ubuntu (or Debian).

The idea is to offer a working system and give the user all the freedom to build that system the way he/she wants. Yes, we know that being going that path, ToriOS won't be for everyone but for those with some knowledge who can tweak the system to their needs. However, there are two skilled members who are good with Wiki and Documentations and I trust their experience and skills and I am sure they can make it as easy as possible even for someone who just started to use Linux. I am not worried much about that because I trust my team's abilities.

Also, rather than trimming down the desktop environment, you might consider using a lighter X server like TinyX, XVesa, or XFBdev. X11 itself is a beast on 10+ yr-old systems, no matter what you run in it.

This seems a very nice and new idea. Do you have any experience with other display servers? this is something I haven't thought about it to be honest

Thanks a lot!

[lykwydchykyn]

I'm a huge fan of SliTaz. Yet, ToriOS supposed to be different in the way it will offer the packages and being based on Ubuntu (or Debian).

I just posted those as examples of systems that have lighter-than-lxde desktops (though I think slitaz uses bits from LXDE). Vector Linux Lite, for example, uses IceWM with (if memory serves) pcmanfm doing the desktop. I ran it for a while on a celeron 800MHz. If you can acheive your goals with e17, though, that's probably your best bet for balancing speed, looks, and friendliness.

The idea is to offer a working system and give the user all the freedom to build that system the way he/she wants. Yes, we know that being going that path, ToriOS won't be for everyone but for those with some knowledge who can tweak the system to their needs. However, there are two skilled members who are good with Wiki and Documentations and I trust their experience and skills and I am sure they can make it as easy as possible even for someone who just started to use Linux. I am not worried much about that because I trust my team's abilities.

Is it for experienced users or new users? Is the default DE just a throwaway environment for install, or do you expect that users will stick with it?

This seems a very nice and new idea. Do you have any experience with other display servers? this is something I haven't thought about it to be honest

I have experience trying and failing to make them run on Debian-based distros. Many small/lightweight distros use these, though, like TinyCore, DamnsmallLinux, etc. It makes things lighter but of course limits things like resolution, color depth, GPU features, etc. Such a move would be a decisive step away from "general purpose distro" towards "super-lightweight distro", which is good and bad.

[amjjawad]

I just posted those as examples of systems that have lighter-than-lxde desktops (though I think slitaz uses bits from LXDE). Vector Linux Lite, for example, uses IceWM with (if memory serves) pcmanfm doing the desktop. I ran it for a while on a celeron 800MHz. If you can acheive your goals with e17, though, that's probably your best bet for balancing speed, looks, and friendliness.

How about this?

Is it for experienced users or new users?

Without good documentation, it won't be helpful for very fresh and new users to Linux. I have two members on my team and I'm the 3rd who can make life very easy for newcomers.

Is the default DE just a throwaway environment for install, or do you expect that users will stick with it?

Kind of throwaway yes because the concept of this system is to give the user the choice and freedom to choose what he/she likes and wants.

However, day after day, I am kind of thinking to maybe include two default DE/WM but only if the time allows that.

Also, see this

I have experience trying and failing to make them run on Debian-based distros.

It appears that Debian is lighter than Ubuntu Mini ISO as per our tests so far.

Many small/lightweight distros use these, though, like TinyCore, DamnsmallLinux, etc. It makes things lighter but of course limits things like resolution, color depth, GPU features, etc. Such a move would be a decisive step away from "general purpose distro" towards "super-lightweight distro", which is good and bad.

Yes. I know what you mean. This is one of the challenges me and my team will face but if truth to be told, this is not our highest priority. If we could draw a smile on someone with Non-PAE machine that could go back to life again, that is our highest priority
We can then worry about being user friendly system or not.

As I explained above, I do have lots of experience with Wiki and Documentation and I have people who can help with this so with great steps, the users will have options to tweak this system if his/her machine can handle it.

Let's see how things will go
I'm managing this project as per Priorities and Votes. No decisions to be made unless we all vote. Also, we arrange our tasks as per priority - example

Thanks for posting

[amjjawad]

Please help ToriOS team to choose between two designs for the official logo

Which one you like the most?

logo2.png

Or

Logo Playing2.png

Tip: Tori (鳥) means Bird in Japanese

Poll is here

Thank you so much!

[lykwydchykyn]

How about this?

JWM is probably one of the lightest. If light & fast is the priority and the environment isn't intended for long-term use, it would be a good choice.

Without good documentation, it won't be helpful for very fresh and new users to Linux. I have two members on my team and I'm the 3rd who can make life very easy for newcomers.


Kind of throwaway yes because the concept of this system is to give the user the choice and freedom to choose what he/she likes and wants.

Just my opinion, but it seems like you really want to decide one way or the other. Otherwise you'll waste a lot of time trying to make a minimal environment useful and user-friendly.

However, day after day, I am kind of thinking to maybe include two default DE/WM but only if the time allows that.

Here's a brainstorm, but howabout a piece of software that analyzes the CPU, RAM, and Video hardware and recommends a choice of DE's to the user? E.G., the program detects a Pentium 4 with 1 GB of RAM and intel hardware, so it offers LXDE or enlightenment as choices (with screenshots and some bullet points, of course).

Also, see this

By developing your own WM, do you actually mean WM or DE? Seems like the world has enough window managers as it is. And what with X11 on the way out, it doesn't seem sensible to start developing a new one. Makes more sense to build up some kind of User Experience from existing parts and solidify it as the needs really gel (sort of like what's happening with Unity).

It appears that Debian is lighter than Ubuntu Mini ISO as per our tests so far.

That's a whole other can of worms, though I'm not surprised.

Yes. I know what you mean. This is one of the challenges me and my team will face but if truth to be told, this is not our highest priority. If we could draw a smile on someone with Non-PAE machine that could go back to life again, that is our highest priority
We can then worry about being user friendly system or not.

As I explained above, I do have lots of experience with Wiki and Documentation and I have people who can help with this so with great steps, the users will have options to tweak this system if his/her machine can handle it.

Let's see how things will go
I'm managing this project as per Priorities and Votes. No decisions to be made unless we all vote. Also, we arrange our tasks as per priority - example

Thanks for posting

Well, I sincerely wish you luck!