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Thread: My thoughts on Ubuntu 12.04

  1. #1
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    My thoughts on Ubuntu 12.04

    I installed 12.04 about 6 to 8 weeks ago (I think, may have been less than that) and I don't really like it that much (I kind of like it and hate it). It looks good, but that's about it really, but the idea of it looking and working different to Windows has me interested.
    I've had problems pretty much every time I've used it (about 5 or 6 times or so) that ultimately end up in me rebooting and letting the laptop boot into Windows. The update manager broke because Google Chrome failed to install. Spent hours (at least an hour or two) looking for the files to delete them. Deleted them, problem still continued. Deleted them several times, problem still there. Eventually fixed itself after messing around in Terminal. Update manager broke in a different way then which then fixed itself eventually. Latest problem, Cairo Dock failed to install from software center and on their site they want me to mess about in Terminal to install it, which failed. Why don't they (program devs) just provide a straightforward download link and let something like Install Shield do it. Mac, Android, iOS and Windows all work in this similar way (iOS and Droid being their respective stores). I can't find my installed programs (other than software center which is prone to breaking by itself), I can't locate where files are saved (in the case of Cairo Dock it part installed and then errored, now I can't find where the files are to remove them). The over-reliance on Terminal is really something I don't like, why can't I use Ubuntu entirely from the GUI (I probably can, but I'm no longer bothered to find out)? Why can't I change my mouse theme either? Last I read about it it involves entering code into Terminal. Why? Just put it as an option in settings

    Whole Ubuntu experience has just left a bad taste in the mouth really. Will probably just end up uninstalling it and maybe come back with 14 when it releases, but at this point, believe it or not Windows kind of just works (until I get my hands on Mac OS, if I ever do, then I will probably think the same about Windows). Ubuntu was just a series of problems and over-complicated things and only really used for web browsing in the end. I'd like to use it, just the way it functions and I do not agree.

  2. #2
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    Re: My thoughts on Ubuntu 12.04

    I installed 12.04 back when it released and it's been great here. Not sure why you've been running into so many problems. I don't have to use the terminal much in Ubuntu, either, although I choose to at times.

  3. #3
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    Re: My thoughts on Ubuntu 12.04

    Quote Originally Posted by malspa View Post
    I installed 12.04 back when it released and it's been great here. Not sure why you've been running into so many problems. I don't have to use the terminal much in Ubuntu, either, although I choose to at times.
    It's not like my computer is underpowered either. It's not the most powerful one going, but it should be capable of running Ubuntu. To be fair, when I first booted into Ubuntu, stuff did just work, but then it broke under normal operation and has had things that aren't quite working with it since (a program here not working, a program there won't install, files which I can't find to delete etc.). Will probably try it again soon

    EDIT: I like stuff, in it's normal state to just work, and then be able to push it beyond what it should do (e.g. I had a feature phone as my main phone which wasn't billed as being able to run apps, and I went and installed some and proved that it can) and allow me to fix that if I break it. Unfortunately Ubuntu isn't working too well under normal use
    Last edited by ballistic turtle; December 10th, 2013 at 09:05 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: My thoughts on Ubuntu 12.04

    I take the gentoo approach. If something is broke then I recompile it. It helps because I noticed sometimes the OS would run 32-bit applications on the 64-bit os and it would crash out so I would either recompile the package if I could or just install the 64-bit counter part.
    I am just a captian of the sea of data in my own mind.
    -~codenine75a~-
    United States of America.
    Usually operating from "Mora" A Dell Latitude E4300

  5. #5
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    Re: My thoughts on Ubuntu 12.04

    If you prefer Windows for real work, just use Windows. I haven't used Windows since before Vista was released. It treated me as if I were dumb, guessing what I wanted to do and then doing that, which too often was not what I wanted. Maybe it was me. Linux on the other hand assumes the user knows what he's doing. If you ask Linux to do something that will break the system, Linux will break itself. People who don't know what they are doing, including most newbies, especially those who like to play until it breaks, often break their system. Luckily reinstalling only takes half an hour.

    Internally everything is based on commands. The GUI is just a layer on top of that. As the system is always in development, the GUI may lag a bit behind the CLI. Add to that that when the GUI breaks the CLI can fix it, but never the other way around, and that the CLI is identical on all systems whilst the GUI is always a bit different, and you can see why most of us prefer the CLI for troubleshooting.

    Most software you need you can get from the repositories, just like with Android, iOS etc. I think Ubuntu had these repositories before most of the wider known systems (that is, from the beginning of Ubuntu), and other Linux distros used repositories even before that. However, chrome is not in them (license reasons etc.). Installing it, resulting in a failure, may have confused the package management system. Properly cleaning up should have solved it, hunting for files belonging to the package may not work.

  6. #6
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    Re: My thoughts on Ubuntu 12.04

    Quote Originally Posted by Impavidus View Post
    If you prefer Windows for real work, just use Windows. I haven't used Windows since before Vista was released. It treated me as if I were dumb, guessing what I wanted to do and then doing that, which too often was not what I wanted. Maybe it was me. Linux on the other hand assumes the user knows what he's doing. If you ask Linux to do something that will break the system, Linux will break itself. People who don't know what they are doing, including most newbies, especially those who like to play until it breaks, often break their system. Luckily reinstalling only takes half an hour.

    Internally everything is based on commands. The GUI is just a layer on top of that. As the system is always in development, the GUI may lag a bit behind the CLI. Add to that that when the GUI breaks the CLI can fix it, but never the other way around, and that the CLI is identical on all systems whilst the GUI is always a bit different, and you can see why most of us prefer the CLI for troubleshooting.

    Most software you need you can get from the repositories, just like with Android, iOS etc. I think Ubuntu had these repositories before most of the wider known systems (that is, from the beginning of Ubuntu), and other Linux distros used repositories even before that. However, chrome is not in them (license reasons etc.). Installing it, resulting in a failure, may have confused the package management system. Properly cleaning up should have solved it, hunting for files belonging to the package may not work.
    I'd like something that doesn't let me completely break it (but if I do allows me to go back and fix it without too much hassle), but doesn't hold my hand completely (or if it does, doesn't create moments of me questioning why a dev would implement something so stupid or asking why can't I do that etc.). With the CLI thing, UI's have moved away from relying on it, and 99% of things can be done through the GUI. A few things can't, like in Windows, fixing IP address problems, go through Command Prompt, rebooting explorer, go through Command Prompt etc.

    EDIT: I was trying to get away from Windows (had grown tired of it, and wanted something new) so I found Ubuntu and decided to try it. Unfortunately, so far, it hasn't really worked

  7. #7
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    Re: My thoughts on Ubuntu 12.04

    Not a support request. Moved to Ubuntu, Linux and OS Chat.

    If you would like to request support for particular problems, please start a post for each individual issue in an appropriate area of the forums.

  8. #8
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    Re: My thoughts on Ubuntu 12.04

    99 problems? but you will not post system specs, you are asked a question and you will not reply I have looked at your posts.now I am asking you if you need help please do so and reply when asked!
    asus p6x58d premium mb bios 15.01 dual lg blue ray burners
    core I7 4.0Ghs
    ati 6950 hd video card asus 24 inch hd monitor
    12 gigs kingston hyper x ddr3 1600 Mhs

  9. #9
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    Re: My thoughts on Ubuntu 12.04

    Quote Originally Posted by ballistic turtle View Post
    The update manager broke because Google Chrome failed to install...
    Google Chrome is not in the Ubuntu repositories. Hence, it isn't supported. Should it work? Sure. Is it Ubuntu's fault if it doesn't? No.

    Spent hours (at least an hour or two)..
    Which is it?

    ...looking for the files to delete them. Deleted them, problem still continued. Deleted them several times, problem still there. Eventually fixed itself after messing around in Terminal.
    What files? Why did you think deleting them would help? Why waste time looking for them when there are a number of ways to search for files in Linux that have been around for years and years? How could you delete the same files "several times"? Either a file is deleted or it isn't. How did things fix themselves? Magic?

    This entire post smacks of someone who expects Linux to work exactly like Windows, can't be bothered to learn a little bit, and decides to give up and sling mud after flailing around in deliberate ignorance doing pretty much all the wrong things.

    Sorry to sound antagonistic. But, if you don't care enough to ask questions or to try to learn even a little bit, I'm hard put to understand why you wanted to waste your time and our time with that little rant.

  10. #10
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    Re: My thoughts on Ubuntu 12.04

    Quote Originally Posted by ballistic turtle View Post
    I'd like something that doesn't let me completely break it (but if I do allows me to go back and fix it without too much hassle), but doesn't hold my hand completely (or if it does, doesn't create moments of me questioning why a dev would implement something so stupid or asking why can't I do that etc.)
    These goals are mutually exclusive. No possible OS can satisfy your requirements because your requirements are incompatible and therefore impossible to satisfy. You are thinking of OSes as if they are simple things that "break" in simple ways, whereas they are actually extremely complex things and will break into smithereens. The reason that proprietary OSes do not allow us to do diddly-squat with them is precisely because the vendors who produce them do not want to have to pick up the pieces of our mess. And the reason that Linux allows us to break the OS into a million splinters is because when we are given the freedom of something like Linux, we must also accept the responsibility to own the consequences of our actions. That's simply the deal with freedom.

    With the CLI thing, UI's have moved away from relying on it, and 99% of things can be done through the GUI.
    I disagree. You may not appreciate the command line, but it's inaccurate to make such blanket statements and project your own needs onto others. The command line is the foundation of Linux. Always has been and always will be. It is immeasurably more elegant and powerful than any GUI and to say that it is unnecessary because "99% of things can be done through the GUI" is like saying we don't need sports cars because anyone can see that an RV can get you from A to B. Windows may have done away with the command line, but that's one of the many reasons that Windows sucks. In my case, Linux in its pure command line form has given dozens of ancient and otherwise obsolete machines valuable second lives. Instead of ending up in junkyards polluting our environment with e-waste, they are doing valuable duty as network attached storage, torrent servers, print servers, VPN servers, exceptionally secure firewall/gateways... the list is almost endless. This is possible only because such machines don't have to sustain the increasingly absurd resource demands of modern GUIs. Far from being the friendly face that you think they are, for many critical and everyday applications, the modern GUI is a pointless and useless pig painted up in lipstick and mascara.

    I was trying to get away from Windows (had grown tired of it, and wanted something new) so I found Ubuntu and decided to try it. Unfortunately, so far, it hasn't really worked
    Linux, in all its distros and manifestations, has a learning curve. There's no getting around this fact. Success in surmounting this learning curve is determined by commitment and motivation. All else, including breakages, trouble finding apps, frustration with the command line—all the usual culprits to which people attribute their lack of success—are secondary and derivative to these two prime determinants.

    If you come to Linux because you are sick of proprietary OS's failings or because you can't stand being treated like a prospective criminal in spite of having already paid for their crippleware, or because you are fed up with having to live within the confines of their glorified jail cells, then these are big motivations, and such users almost always make the transition. The most inspiring example of such a user whom I've ever had the privilege of helping was this one. On the other hand, for those who are just shopping for OSes with no specific reason—they just want a change—the motivation is, frankly, not very high, and the rate of success is likewise not very high either. And those who aren't even shoppers, but tourists who just want to drop in, have a peek, and then go home—these users almost never make the transition.

    Now, before I'm accused of condescension or elitism, I want to say that there's nothing wrong with shopping or touring. They are all respectable time-honoured activities and our lives would be greatly diminished were they to disappear. I am not judging these activities, nor the depth of commitment or motivation behind them. I am merely stating what I perceive to be a fact: that success in transitioning to Linux is inseparably correlated with commitment and motivation.

    If you judge your own motivation to be low, then it's best to stick with Windows. The frustrations to learning a new and complex OS are just not worth it if you are considering Linux only because you are tired of Windows.
    Last edited by DuckHook; December 11th, 2013 at 08:34 PM.
    Newb: How far must I jump to clear the ledge halfway down?
    Guru: It's bad to jump off cliffs. Let's look at better options.
    Newb: Stop harping about "best practices" and just let me jump.


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