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Thread: Is Ubuntu leapfrogging off of the Linux community?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is Ubuntu leapfrogging off of the Linux community?

    Quote Originally Posted by grahammechanical View Post
    Well, the Op won't like what I am doing know...People like the OP do not speak for me. But they seem to have a deep psychological need to post insults on this forum. They stalk the forums. Does using a Linux distribution make people that way? This is why there is the Ubuntu code of conduct.
    Quote Originally Posted by buzzingrobot View Post
    The OP is making assumptions that aren't universally shared and often cannot be shown to be accurate.
    Not sure how I'm insulting anyone or making assumptions about anything in my original post...all I did was raise some philosophical questions about the direction Ubuntu is headed, in the hopes of starting a debate and getting a broader view of how the community feels about the issue (if there is one at all). Ubuntu (Canonical) is a company that has been making excellent business decisions and has showed the potential to be a real competitor with Microsoft and Apple, etc.

    All I am asking is if they should be promoting the wider Linux community along with their own agenda, and how people feel about either case. In my opinion, it is posts like yours, grahammechanical, and yours buzzingrobot that are detramental to the open discussion of the ideology/philosophy and politics surrounding Ubuntu and its community. Note that this post is in "Ubuntu, Linux, and OS Chat", which is precisely what it is. I am not bellyaching about Ubuntu, I'm encouraging a useful discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ikt View Post
    I think it's enough, I almost think of Ubuntu and the linux community as two distinctly different entities, one is 'pure', just for enthusiasts, and crossing this path is heresy, they attempt to appeal to people based on a underlying philosophy that all code should be free, privacy is paramount etc, the other is fine getting its hands messy as it attempts to appeal to the general market.

    My argument is that it's better to have 100 people with somewhat better security than 1 person with great security, and 99 without, but Mr. Stallman disagrees, it's all or nothing, so I don't really identify with GNU.
    That's a good point. At the same time though, wouldn't even more people benefit from greater security if the community which essentially birthed Ubuntu were also lifted into the limelight? That way all Linux distributions would benefit from a broader user base, encouraging more variety and moving even farther from the dichotomic stranglehold Microsoft/Apple has held the market in for so long. On the path I see Ubuntu going now, the market will morph into a trichotomy: Windows, OSX, and Ubuntu/Linux (these two will become synonymous). Not necessarily a bad thing, as Ubuntu has an exceptional product for the world.

  2. #22
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    Re: Is Ubuntu leapfrogging off of the Linux community?

    I don't see a linux community, but rather a system of entrenched encampments, forever bickering with each other regardless of what Ubuntu does.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Is Ubuntu leapfrogging off of the Linux community?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadflowr View Post
    I don't see a linux community, but rather a system of entrenched encampments, forever bickering with each other regardless of what Ubuntu does.
    Yep, that's how it looks from here, too, for the most part.

  4. #24
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    Re: Is Ubuntu leapfrogging off of the Linux community?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadflowr View Post
    I don't see a linux community, but rather a system of entrenched encampments, forever bickering with each other regardless of what Ubuntu does.
    You know, the linux tech press loves drama. They love to make it front page news whenever Linus chews out some kernel noob or Mark Shuttleworth flings out insults at random KDE/Redhat developers.

    What they miss (because it doesn't generate clickthroughs) is the amazing amount of collaboration that *is* going on, and how much really cool stuff gets done by the developer communities out there.

    This forum is (understandably) full of Ubuntu fans, but it seems to me a lot of the posts I've read here have a very skewed and unfair view of what "the rest of the Linux community" is all about. Innovation and reinvention of the Linux desktop was well underway within the KDE/Gnome/E17 communities well before Unity came to Ubuntu. I'm not gonna say Ubuntu hasn't brought some nice bits to the table (the software center raised the bar when it came out, though it's stagnated now), but they aren't the only ones by a long shot.

  5. #25
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    Re: Is Ubuntu leapfrogging off of the Linux community?

    Quote Originally Posted by clappboard View Post
    All I am asking is if they should be promoting the wider Linux community along with their own agenda, and how people feel about either case. In my opinion, it is posts like yours, grahammechanical, and yours buzzingrobot that are detramental to the open discussion of the ideology/philosophy and politics surrounding Ubuntu and its community.
    Linux and Ubuntu are all about software. Nothing else.

    Fretting about the "ideology/philosphy and politics" of FOSS invariably results in greater precedence being given to ideology, philosophy and politics than to making better software for users. Sorry, but that makes no more sense than expecting me to worry about the ideology, philosphy and polutics of refrigerator makers.

    Now, if I were a developer, I'd be all for being able to see the source code of other products. It's useful to see how other people solved problems.

    But, I am not a developer. As far as I am concerned, the purpose of developers is to create products for me. If they are products I like, I will use them whether they are open source or closed source. I see no reason to inconvenience myself due to the software development model employed to make software.

    Meanwhile, no evidence exists to demonstrate that the openness of FOSS software invariably, as in cause-and-effect, results in the delivery of software that's better than closed source.

    The FOSS world spends too much self-destructive time fighting pointless battles.

  6. #26
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    Re: Is Ubuntu leapfrogging off of the Linux community?

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzingrobot View Post
    Linux and Ubuntu are all about software. Nothing else.

    Fretting about the "ideology/philosphy and politics" of FOSS invariably results in greater precedence being given to ideology, philosophy and politics than to making better software for users. Sorry, but that makes no more sense than expecting me to worry about the ideology, philosphy and polutics of refrigerator makers.
    That may be your view, but OP raised legitimate questions as well. I don't think it is possible to make a clean separation of FLOSS and "ideology".

    On the other hand, I find most of the recent dramas unnecessary and I am not really sure who was elected to represent "the Linux community", seems to be just bickerings between some very vocal people and competing interests (Canonical, Redhat e,g)

  7. #27
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    Re: Is Ubuntu leapfrogging off of the Linux community?

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeybrain20122 View Post
    That may be your view, but OP raised legitimate questions as well. I don't think it is possible to make a clean separation of FLOSS and "ideology".

    You mistake my point. FLOSS is inextricably tangled up with ideology. Software, a broader category, is not.

    i want the focus to be on better software, not the political opinions of its developers. That works better for me.


    On the other hand, I find most of the recent dramas unnecessary and I am not really sure who was elected to represent "the Linux community", seems to be just bickerings between some very vocal people and competing interests (Canonical, Redhat e,g)
    very true. Seems like everyone with an opinion and access to a keyboard claims to be speaking universal truths.

  8. #28
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    Re: Is Ubuntu leapfrogging off of the Linux community?

    FLOSS is all about ideology.

    Unity, a GUI that can live happily on a multitude of devices, is all about pragmatism.

    Ideologists and pragmatists have never gotten along.

    That said, I don't much care for Unity -- which isn't a problem because I can choose not to use it. I'm a pragmatist.

  9. #29
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    Re: Is Ubuntu leapfrogging off of the Linux community?

    That is why I use Linux Mint Mate--more of what I want, less of what I don't want. I guess I'm a ideological pragmatist.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Is Ubuntu leapfrogging off of the Linux community?

    FLOSS is tangled up with my teeth. I think you mean FOSS - Free and Open Source Software.

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