The thread closings will continue until morale improves

[elamericano]

That's a slight variation on an old joke, but the point is valid. I honestly think that thread closing is over used. It's the real world equivalent of stone walling. In threads that are civil, on-topic for the area, and not very old, what is the problem?

It's like when the police say, "Nothing to see here, move along." It's almost never true. Please allow the community to discuss its issues. Thank you for your tolerance.

[henriquemaia]

That's a slight variation on an old joke, but the point is valid. I honestly think that thread closing is over used. It's the real world equivalent of stone walling. In threads that are civil, on-topic for the area, and not very old, what is the problem?

It's like when the police say, "Nothing to see here, move along." It's almost never true. Please allow the community to discuss its issues. Thank you for your tolerance.

Again, I totally agree with you.

[manicka]

lol... I wonder how long it will take before this one is closed.

Seriously though, it's part of the guidelines that we agree to when making our accounts that this is the way the forum will be moderated. I know that Azz and many others have had concerns about this for quite some time.

As someone who's been there, it's not until you step back that you realise how overbearing staff can be. It's part of the ethos of doing your job and following the guidelines.

Overall though, while I totally agree with you elamericano, I don't think it will happen any time soon.

[aysiu]

I expect this thread to be closed very soon.

Threads get closed a little too overzealously here when they really should have posts extracted from them and moved to the Jail, or the threads themselves should be moved to the Backyard or combined with other threads on the same topic.

Instead, some moderators just feel like closing whatever suits their fancy. And, yes, we agreed not to question the judgment of the moderators. That's life.

Respect the Forum Staff. We provide a service in our free time to keep the forum running efficiently. We will occasionally ask for input, but in some cases we will not, please respect our decisions. Also, we do edit for content, if you have an issue with our moderation, please open a request in the forums resolution center.

While I don't agree with certain moderators closing threads left and right, I don't think it's that big a deal, for a couple of reasons:

1. This is primarily a support forum. People are still getting the support they need, so that's what's important. Would it be nice if people could chat on the side about random stuff without the thread being closed unnecessarily? Sure. But that's not what the forum is about--it's about support.

2. It's ubuntu-geek's forum, and it's run by his rules. If you don't like it, don't use it. It's not your forum. It's not my forum. We're just guests here. I may not agree with all the decisions here, but tough noogies to me.

[henriquemaia]

You're absolutely right in all you say, aysiu.

But one thing the forum staff can do: revise the guidelines if they seem fit to do so.

And why: if the have feedback from the community, specially senior members as you. No guidelines are perfect and just like the community members can adjust themselves to the guidelines (if they have accepted them), so the guidelines can evolve to fit the community.

Just my opinion, though.

[frodon]

You're absolutely right in all you say, aysiu.

But one thing the forum staff can do: revise the guidelines if they seem fit to do so.

And why: if the have feedback from the community, specially senior members as you. No guidelines are perfect and just like the community members can adjust themselves to the guidelines (if they have accepted them), so the guidelines can evolve to fit the community. It's a matter of feeling and nobody is true in this case.

Just my opinion, though.

Think also that mods are humans, sometimes i can find something harsh whereas you don't.
Remember that we just try to do our best nevertheless all the users will never agree because each one have a different feeling.

That's a slight variation on an old joke, but the point is valid. I honestly think that thread closing is over used. It's the real world equivalent of stone walling. In threads that are civil, on-topic for the area, and not very old, what is the problem?

What kind of thread are you talking about ? It would help me to understand what offended you.

It's like when the police say, "Nothing to see here, move along." It's almost never true. Please allow the community to discuss its issues. Thank you for your tolerance.

For sure it's not, however when there's many thread on the same topic the forum may become hijacked and some users would complain that the forum is hard to read.
So for hot topics we often prefer to merge the discussions in a single thread.


So it's not a simple question and there's no magic solution and no solution will satisfy everybody.

[aysiu]

Think also that mods are humans, sometimes i can find something harsh whereas you don't.
Remember that we just try to do our best nevertheless all the users will never agree because each one have a different feeling.

Having been a moderator myself here once, I can attest to this--moderators are human. And they each have their own individual judgments, and the training is minimal (or was when I was a mod) for moderators. They try their best, and sometimes moderators do not necessarily even agree with each other about the best way to deal with certain threads.

So it's not a simple question and there's no magic solution and no solution will satisfy everybody.

No, but some solutions are certainly better than others.

I would propose that there be a standard procedure for threads that get out of hand, and that if special circumstances call for a deviation from the standard procedure, then the moderators discuss what would be the best course of action.

If a thread gets out of hand...

1. Send private messages to the offending parties asking them to cool it.
2. If the messages aren't heeded, cut the offending posts out of the thread and move those posts to the Jail or the Backyard
3. If the thread isn't as volatile but still seems too heated for the Cafe, move the entire thread to the Backyard
4. If the thread is redundant, merge it with the other similar thread
5. If the bulk of the thread (not just two forum members arguing back and forth and flaming one another--but several forum members generally kicking up ill will) is counterproductive, put in a public warning to have people cool it. Afterwards, close the thread if the warning isn't heeded.

Note, in my proposal, it takes a very extreme situation to close a thread. No one has to adopt this, but it is a proposal, and I'm putting it out there.

[elamericano]

I have seen the "private forum" comment thown out more time than I care to remember. It's true, and I accept it 100%. I just think it's beside the point. The goal for everyone is to help the forums serve the community better, isn't it? Technically it's working great. People are getting their questions answered. Neverthess, allowing people to talk freely and share information that doesn't violate the guidelines would create a better environment for those who may wish to get involved some day.

The mods here can be some of the most patient and polite as I have ever seen, so it doesn't make sense to me that some discussions make them so uncomfortable that we just can't talk about it

Even the "unmoderated" backyard can close threads which don't violate any of the 6 rules posted. What shall we do then? Wait for the unofficial ubuntuforums community to spring up? Is that's what's best for the community?

I'm not looking to make moderating more work than it already is. In fact, I'm saying that some things can be safely ignored. You shouldn't feel like you're not doing your job if you don't moderate a thread. Sometimes the best call for a referee to make is no call.

[aysiu]

I agree with you, elamericano. Even though the forums are about support, if there's a lot of ill will from the Cafe and Backyard, that can carry over into attitudes in support.

I think it's good to remember both sides of each issue:

On the one hand, it is a private forum, not a democracy. On the other hand, a no-questions-allowed dictatorship doesn't exactly lead the forums to continue as a fun place to be. We need a good balance. We seem to have that now in many ways, but it isn't perfect.

Again, on the one hand, the Cafe and discussion threads are a luxury--the forum really is primarily about support. On the other hand, part of what makes this forum fun is the discussions we have on the side about whatever.

Thanks for presenting the other side of the coin, elamericano.

[tseliot]

I agree with you, elamericano. Even though the forums are about support, if there's a lot of ill will from the Cafe and Backyard, that can carry over into attitudes in support.

I think it's good to remember both sides of each issue:

On the one hand, it is a private forum, not a democracy. On the other hand, a no-questions-allowed dictatorship doesn't exactly lead the forums to continue as a fun place to be. We need a good balance. We seem to have that now in many ways, but it isn't perfect.

Again, on the one hand, the Cafe and discussion threads are a luxury--the forum really is primarily about support. On the other hand, part of what makes this forum fun is the discussions we have on the side about whatever.

Thanks for presenting the other side of the coin, elamericano.

I do 100% agree with you

The mods here can be some of the most patient and polite as I have ever seen, so it doesn't make sense to me that some discussions make them so uncomfortable that we just can't talk about it

Even the "unmoderated" backyard can close threads which don't violate any of the 6 rules posted. What shall we do then? Wait for the unofficial ubuntuforums community to spring up? Is that's what's best for the community?

We do what we deem right in order to preserve order on the forums. We can make mistakes though. I usually apologise when I make a mistake.

I'm not looking to make moderating more work than it already is. In fact, I'm saying that some things can be safely ignored. You shouldn't feel like you're not doing your job if you don't moderate a thread. Sometimes the best call for a referee to make is no call.

You're absolutely right "Sometimes the best call for a referee to make is no call"