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Thread: Ubuntu 12.04 RANT

  1. #1
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    Ubuntu 12.04 RANT

    I've been away from Linux for quite some time. I have just set up a PC for my wife who is bedridden but Windows would not allow me to adjust the size of certain objects, icons being the most annoying, so I thought, (now that's a dangerous concept) "Linux will fix this, I'll install Linux". Being the considerate husband that I am I decided to set it up on my media server first. Broke out my AMD64bit Karmic Koala cd and installed it like a dream, from there it has all been downhill! That version is too old to access the repositories, ok, I'll download the latest and greatest. TWO DAYS later I've finally managed to, at least get some semblance of an installer running, I'd have thought that by now support for nVidia chipsets would be endemic. After numerous "black screens" and so forth, I am currently in the process of finally partitioning a drive, (I hope, I seem to be waiting a long time for nothing to happen). It took me nearly 48 hours to get a fully working system using Windows 7 (including all updates and other software) on this same computer. If later versions of Ubuntu, and, I suspect, other perversions, are so "user unfriendly" I cannot see them becoming a viable alternative to the bits of fruit (Apple) and Windows. I'd have thought that by now, Linux would be a fairly mature OS with minimal issues to the novice. Heck, even Windows has managed to "get it right" (well sort of) ever since the days of DOS (remember those) some of the time.


    Now to some questions.

    If I manage to download and install a Live CD/USB and, get it working with no black screen issues etc, do I still need separate variants for Intel and AMD processors?
    Why is it that the installer only shows the absolute drive name (sda, sdb, etc) but does not seem to show the volume name which would make it much easier installing on a system with multiple drives?
    Last edited by sandyd; October 15th, 2013 at 05:51 PM. Reason: please dont use windows slang :|

  2. #2
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    Re: Ubuntu 12.04 RANT

    Quote Originally Posted by wlsemmens View Post
    I've been away from Linux for quite some time. I have just set up a PC for my wife who is bedridden but Windoze would not allow me to adjust the size of certain objects, icons being the most annoying, so I thought, (now that's a dangerous concept) "Linux will fix this, I'll install Linux". Being the considerate husband that I am I decided to set it up on my media server first. Broke out my AMD64bit Karmic Koala cd and installed it like a dream, from there it has all been downhill! That version is too old to access the repositories, ok, I'll download the latest and greatest. TWO DAYS later I've finally managed to, at least get some semblance of an installer running, I'd have thought that by now support for nVidia chipsets would be endemic. After numerous "black screens" and so forth, I am currently in the process of finally partitioning a drive, (I hope, I seem to be waiting a long time for nothing to happen). It took me nearly 48 hours to get a fully working system using Windoze 7 (including all updates and other software) on this same computer. If later versions of Ubuntu, and, I suspect, other perversions, are so "user unfriendly" I cannot see them becoming a viable alternative to the bits of fruit (Apple) and Windoze. I'd have thought that by now, Linux would be a fairly mature OS with minimal issues to the novice. Heck, even Windoze has managed to "get it right" (well sort of) ever since the days of DOS (remember those) some of the time.
    i suspect nomodeset command would solve your issue: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions

    i have compatible hadrware and install took about 15 minutes (dual boot). not sure how you got 48 hours. and for what exactly...
    edit: i have an even older mashicne and a slow one that took about 30 mins to install Chrunchbang which is perhaps only slightly more complicated to install.
    If I manage to download and install a Live CD/USB and, get it working with no black screen issues etc, do I still need separate variants for Intel and AMD processors?
    x86 and AMD64 are brand names. x86 stands for 32 bit OS while AMD64 stands for 64 bit os. AMD64 works on 64 bit intel CPU as well. but because AMD was the first to make 64bit CPU this name stuck in image name. read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64
    Why is it that the installer only shows the absolute drive name (sda, sdb, etc) but does not seem to show the volume name which would make it much easier installing on a system with multiple drives?
    because those labels are valid in DOS (they are DOS volume lables). why doesn't windows see linux file system and volume lables when you are installing windows as dual boot? in short it's a non issue if you are installing only linux OS. being able to do a dualboot with completely different OS is a bonus! other proprietary os will do everything in their power to actually stop you from booting anything else but their brand of OS (e.g. secure boot).
    Last edited by mastablasta; October 15th, 2013 at 09:29 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Ubuntu 12.04 RANT

    Thanks for the quick reply, I used the nomodeset command which was less than satisfactory but it got me to the next bit, it did seem to install but I am now back at the black screen, yet again. I'm now going to have to break out my Old Linux disk just to modify, (I'm guessing here), GRUB to re-add nomodeset now that it is installed. Thanks for the bit of info about 64 and 32 bit variants, my info had been derived from earlier versions of Linux documentation which did not appear to be as clear as it should be.

    My issue with drive labels, which I am happy enough referring to drive letters etc, has got nothing to do with OS dualbooting. As I said in my OP, that I was installing on my media server, which has 5 drives internally, and more external, mostly containing movies or software masters so no OS dualboot is involved or needed. My setup is such that I have one drive for an OS, One for Downloads, One as my documents repository which also contains backups of all software, one backup drive and the remaining drives contain movies and TV shows all have appropriate volume labels, which identify what they contain. Because I have so many drives installed, I forget into which SATA socket they are plugged. I know I could crack the case and work with one drive, but that defeats the purpose for the average noddy.

  4. #4
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    Re: Ubuntu 12.04 RANT

    Hi there.
    You could use GParted, or some such application, to examine your drives & see if you can tell which one is which (or whatever) by drive size & file system.
    I think that's also possible from the command line with fdisk.
    Of course, it won't help if all of your drives are the same size & file system.

    Or perhaps the drives could be examined from the Live environment & then you can see what's on them.
    Just a thought.
    Last edited by verymadpip; October 15th, 2013 at 12:01 PM.

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    Re: Ubuntu 12.04 RANT

    Quote Originally Posted by wlsemmens View Post
    Thanks for the quick reply, I used the nomodeset command which was less than satisfactory but it got me to the next bit, it did seem to install but I am now back at the black screen, yet again. I'm now going to have to break out my Old Linux disk just to modify, (I'm guessing here), GRUB to re-add nomodeset now that it is installed. Thanks for the bit of info about 64 and 32 bit variants, my info had been derived from earlier versions of Linux documentation which did not appear to be as clear as it should be.
    .
    hold left shift to get into grub and to boot again with nomodeset.

    and then do this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...7#post10396637

    to keep it. you didn't mention what GPU you use. perhaps you need to install additional drivers. i am not sure why this nomodeset appears now, i also didn't have this issue before but in some versions it's appearing. and drivers are opensource. i first came across it in OpenSUSE when i was trynig it out.

    My issue with drive labels, which I am happy enough referring to drive letters etc, has got nothing to do with OS dualbooting. As I said in my OP, that I was installing on my media server, which has 5 drives internally, and more external, mostly containing movies or software masters so no OS dualboot is involved or needed. My setup is such that I have one drive for an OS, One for Downloads, One as my documents repository which also contains backups of all software, one backup drive and the remaining drives contain movies and TV shows all have appropriate volume labels, which identify what they contain. Because I have so many drives installed, I forget into which SATA socket they are plugged. I know I could crack the case and work with one drive, but that defeats the purpose for the average noddy.

    yes and if all those drives were formated with the ubuntu default ext4 file system you would see the lables i believe. but you have them formatted in NTFS haven't you? which is windows format.
    to me the best way not to confuse partition ( i have 4 that came on laptop and needed to add at least 2 Ubuntu partitions) is to create empty unformatted disc space and then on install just install to where the unformatted space is.

    sda = first disk, sdb second disk etc.
    sda1 = first partition on first disk, sda2 second partition on first disk etc.

    you can add a feature request on launchpad. perhaps they could make use of some linux command to read dos labels on install. it might come in handy...
    Easy to understand Ubuntu manual with lots of pics: http://ubuntu-manual.org/
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  6. #6
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    Re: Ubuntu 12.04 RANT

    Thanks mastablasta, I've solved the black screen issue It is a nVidia chipset, which I did mention in my OP. I know that nVidia drivers are a closed book, but can the generic ones which seem to be available in the repository be added to the ISO and loaded if that chipset is detected?

    You are correct in that the easiest way to identify these things is to do some preparation beforehand, from a novice moving over from Windows perspective, it can be quite daunting and many of these pitfalls have never been experienced by the average PC user, it could easily deter them. I'm now downloading and updating my system. Is there a way, to resize the desktop as the launcher is half on, and half off the screen and the menubar is totally off screen. I've tried most of the nVidia drivers from the repository and various screen resolutions, but, so far, nothing has worked.
    Last edited by sandyd; October 15th, 2013 at 05:52 PM.

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    Re: Ubuntu 12.04 RANT

    reverse engineered opensource nvidia drivers are included in kernel. however some newer chipsets have proprietary drivers (made by nvidia) available for install. they are offered automaticly upon install if you are connected to internet. when you boot and see desktop - that's the opensource graphics driver. proprietary drivers can't be on CD for legal reasons i believe, which is why they are offered for download after install.

    i find it now that install is easier if you do it form within live boot. as you can browse the disks in case you are not sure, identify them etc. or also ask on IRC for quick support. most users on ubuntu support channels will know answers to at least basic and most often asked questions. i was quite scared i would mess it when doing dual boot but luckilly it all worked out.

    regarding the screen someone else with nvidia will know more. most certianly the desktop is customizable (resolution, size, place etc.) to a certain point. i also do not use Unity interface but Kubuntu as it is closer to Windows and KDE has (in my opinion) better programmes (though i use certain gnome stuff as well).
    .
    Easy to understand Ubuntu manual with lots of pics: http://ubuntu-manual.org/
    Do i need antivirus/firewall in linux?
    User friendly disk backup: Redobackup

  8. #8
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    Re: Ubuntu 12.04 RANT

    Thanks for all your help masta, I could not do a live boot because of the nVidia issue it just would not let me get past the keyboard picture on the screen. I've finished downloading all updates and went into a restart as it requested, now the bloody thing freezes solid half way through the loading process the last line on the screen is
    * Starting automatic crash report generation [ok]
    and there it has sat for the last hour!! I'm over it! Now looking for another Distro, Ubuntu, IMO has gone backwards.

  9. #9
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    Re: Ubuntu 12.04 RANT

    Quote Originally Posted by wlsemmens View Post
    Thanks for all your help masta, I could not do a live boot because of the nVidia issue it just would not let me get past the keyboard picture on the screen. I've finished downloading all updates and went into a restart as it requested, now the bloody thing freezes solid half way through the loading process the last line on the screen is
    * Starting automatic crash report generation [ok]
    and there it has sat for the last hour!! I'm over it! Now looking for another Distro, Ubuntu, IMO has gone backwards.
    you might want to try Linux Mint.....derived from Ubuntu, but sleeker, quicker, more elegant, etc....and it has the Noveau
    driver which works great with my Nvidia card....

    and yes, I STILL use Ubuntu 12.04...and Mint 14....and Arch Linux....

    just a thought

    Tommy
    Registered Linux User # 529389
    Ubuntu 12.04.5 LTS, Ubuntu 14.04.2 LTS, Debian 7.8 Wheezy, Linux Mint 17.1 Rebecca, Fedora 20
    my new & improved web page http://users.gilanet.com/~tfrost

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    Re: Ubuntu 12.04 RANT

    Quote Originally Posted by wlsemmens View Post
    Why is it that the installer only shows the absolute drive name (sda, sdb, etc) but does not seem to show the volume name which would make it much easier installing on a system with multiple drives?
    Sorry you had installation issues. Put very simply the reason Ubuntu doesn't show volume labels is that labels are a vestige of Windows. Ubuntu derives from Unix, which goes back to 1968 or so. In those dark days storage was the responsibility of tape drives. Labeling a tape, except physically, makes no sense. That thinking hasn't really changed over the years. The nice thing is that after your system is operational, you are free to assign whatever labels you want to the drives in your system. There are 5 in mine, all with names suggestive of their purpose. If this is what you need, you can do the same. I concede that it would be marginally helpful for Ubuntu to recognize volume labels during installation to benefit those, like yourself, who are into dual-boot, and those, like myself, who have same make/same size volumes. Cheers to you and your wife!
    Last edited by whitesmith; October 15th, 2013 at 03:54 PM. Reason: accuracy
    In working with *nix...There be dragons. Newcomers: I recommend reading Linux is Not Windows (http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm) and The Linux Command Line (http://www.linuxcommand.org/tlcl.php) before beginning your quest for a better OS.

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