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Thread: Say Goodbye to Windows XP - StartUbuntu Project

  1. #151
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    Re: Say Goodbye to Windows XP - StartUbuntu Project

    Quote Originally Posted by kansasnoob View Post
    I'm currently at 53 - but I started in 2008 with some old Win 98 and Win ME boxes

    Many hardware upgrades involved but I've loved the journey.
    I have started late in October and in 2013, I had only 16 but now, with the first two months of 2014, I have broken my own record in 2013 and installed on 17 so total is 33

  2. #152
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    Re: Say Goodbye to Windows XP - StartUbuntu Project

    How about we contact Mr. Gates and offer him a switch to Linux?
    I am sure he will be much less stressful

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...indows-81.html

    He will be so happy and glad. We all know what could happen. Most likely, he will migrate the entire Microsoft to Linux

  3. #153
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    Re: Say Goodbye to Windows XP - StartUbuntu Project

    Hi to everybody!

    Kansansnoob has suggested me this interesting thread.

    I'm the typical user that has always used only Windows from the 3.11 version onwards (except for Commodore 64, Amiga and Atari ST, of course!).

    Sometimes, it happened to me to read something about Linux, but it seemed too complicated and I didn't find any interest. Effectively, at the beginning words as 'distros, repositories, terminals, grub, sudo' etc are not so attractives as turning on the computer and simply using it.

    The last september, while watching a good 'Doctor Who' episode, a flash of inspiration: to throw away my old desktop pc coming from the past century (1999). I picked it up in 2007 from a customer who was throwing away in its turn. It had Win 98, a Nvdivia Riva TNT graphic card and a 1,5ghz cpu etc.
    So, not so bad for web-browsing use. I upgraded it from Win 98 to XP Professional Edition, without formatting (!!). So, the last september it was quite unusable: very but very slow, the only browser that permitted me to open within 10 minutes a page was Opera, defragmenting and tweaking it was now useless. So it was the time for the trash can.
    But before I wanted to play with it, and I remembered something I had read in the past about something called more or less kbuntu, kubuntu or similar, maybe for old computers. I was wrong, but in those days I didn't know.
    So, after some time passed in reading literature, I installed a 2nd pci hdd and installed kubuntu 12.04. The first load was a disaster: bad graphic, error messages and crashes everywhere: so, I learned that drivers in Linux world are a problems! Mine was Nvidia legacy driver and Nouvevau. But I'm curious, so I continued to play with the old machine. I read a lot of articles at that time, and after a month I gave up with Kubuntu and I installed Lubuntu 13.10. Again problems, but I followed some posts in the very active Linux forums and finally, after having discovered the existence of xorg.conf file, I had at the beginning of november a working Lubuntu machine. After a long-suffering period, and tkinkings like 'why am I doing this?', my old pc has changed into something else: serviceable in one word.
    In the meanwhile, I was continuing to read posts and articles about Ubuntu in particular, but I discovered a big world made of interesting distros.... but the infos were not always so clear.

    Anyway, I spoke about this with my boss, that showed interest for this: instead of spending money after the next april, we could try to keep actual pcs and to change OS. But this point I think is not so clear also today to him.... I installed on three machines very similar to my old one (Nvidia Riva...sic!) Lubuntu 13.10, and we gave them to some my colleagues that are normal users in order to understand if the change was really possible.
    To tell the truth, at the beginning we installed on one more powerful machine Ubuntu 12.04, but it didn't like to my colleague who was using it, so we decided (after another short panel test with Xubuntu) for Lubuntu 13.10. People is learning very fast and they say that it is 'not so similar to XP but instead it seems an "improved" Win 98'...

    Ok, so in a short period four pcs were converted to Lubuntu 13.10 from XP. On those machines I installed VirtualBox to use some specific company XP programmes, and in this moment the test is going well.

    Unluckily, we have also some Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo L7320 given to the salesmen for customer reports etc "Ok", I said: Lubuntu also here! No, something doesn't work (as Kansasnoob knows!!), so now people in my company thinks that this choice in not so good and that buying new computers with Windows 8 would be a better choice.... In the meanwhile, in order to acquire knowledge, I've persuaded two friends to install an Ubuntu flavour (one Kubuntu 12.04, the other Lubuntu 13.10).

    So, now I have some installations done behind (not so much like you all, obviously!), and these are some thinkings coming from my little experience till now:

    - no one installation has been easy and has been ok from the first trial: driver problems has been the main ones, and vesa drivers are not attractive for a whole user experience; the installations were successful between the 3rd and the 5th trial

    - at the beginning, finding the right documentation to introduce a beginner used to use only Windows pcs is not so easy. A lot of forums but sometimes it seems like an exclusive club: not so much for someone that wants to start in an easy way

    - I love the terminal, but few users love to solve problems with a cli tool...I wouldn't underestimate the importance of more user-friendly solutions

    - this is a big historical opportunity for the Linux world to have many more users in one shot. I think also however that you can 'convert' a Windows user starting from its actual hardware: in the future, once he will be used to the new OS, he will buy a more specific and compatible hardware. This is a classical vicious circle: if Linux developers won't support the old hardware in order to tempt the users and the companies to keep their actual hardware, saving money today, they will not buy specific and Linux-tweaked hardware tomorrow.

    - Once the installation is done with a good result, all the Ubuntu flavours are very pleasable to use - the difficult is to get this target!!

    - I like computers, but I'm not a computer-geek: if I see that every time I have to do an installation is a problem, I will look for other solutions. Now I'm used to turn-on the pc and to use it without any particular problem, and I'm not obliged to use Power-shell.

    - I've learned that every time there are updatings, something can go wrong: with Xp is rarely happened

    These want to be constructive criticisms: my old pc running Lubuntu 13.10 makes me very satisfied, and I'm still tweaking it with very good results. But I like also to use a pc without doing any activity on the OS. A user experience like an Android device would be nice (from my user's point of view)

    Uh, I wrote too much, excuse me!!
    Last edited by stilnovo1; February 10th, 2014 at 01:51 PM.

  4. #154
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    Re: Say Goodbye to Windows XP - StartUbuntu Project

    Quote Originally Posted by stilnovo1 View Post
    Hi to everybody!

    Kansansnoob has suggested me this interesting thread.

    I'm the typical user that has always used only Windows from the 3.11 version onwards (except for Commodore 64, Amiga and Atari ST, of course!).

    Sometimes, it happened to me to read something about Linux, but it seemed too complicated and I didn't find any interest. Effectively, at the beginning words as 'distros, repositories, terminals, grub, sudo' etc are not so attractives as turning on the computer and simply using it.

    The last september, while watching a good 'Doctor Who' episode, a flash of inspiration: to throw away my old desktop pc coming from the past century (1999). I picked it up in 2007 from a customer who was throwing away in its turn. It had Win 98, a Nvdivia Riva TNT graphic card and a 1,5ghz cpu etc.
    So, not so bad for web-browsing use. I upgraded it from Win 98 to XP Professional Edition, without formatting (!!). So, the last september it was quite unusable: very but very slow, the only browser that permitted me to open within 10 minutes a page was Opera, defragmenting and tweaking it was now useless. So it was the time for the trash can.
    But before I wanted to play with it, and I remembered something I had read in the past about something called more or less kbuntu, kubuntu or similar, maybe for old computers. I was wrong, but in those days I didn't know.
    So, after some time passed in reading literature, I installed a 2nd pci hdd and installed kubuntu 12.04. The first load was a disaster: bad graphic, error messages and crashes everywhere: so, I learned that drivers in Linux world are a problems! Mine was Nvidia legacy driver and Nouvevau. But I'm curious, so I continued to play with the old machine. I read a lot of articles at that time, and after a month I gave up with Kubuntu and I installed Lubuntu 13.10. Again problems, but I followed some posts in the very active Linux forums and finally, after having discovered the existence of xorg.conf file, I had at the beginning of november a working Lubuntu machine. After a long-suffering period, and tkinkings like 'why am I doing this?', my old pc has changed into something else: serviceable in one word.
    In the meanwhile, I was continuing to read posts and articles about Ubuntu in particular, but I discovered a big world made of interesting distros.... but the infos were not always so clear.

    Anyway, I spoke about this with my boss, that showed interest for this: instead of spending money after the next april, we could try to keep actual pcs and to change OS. But this point I think is not so clear also today to him.... I installed on three machines very similar to my old one (Nvidia Riva...sic!) Lubuntu 13.10, and we gave them to some my colleagues that are normal users in order to understand if the change was really possible.
    To tell the truth, at the beginning we installed on one more powerful machine Ubuntu 12.04, but it didn't like to my colleague who was using it, so we decided (after another short panel test with Xubuntu) for Lubuntu 13.10. People is learning very fast and they say that it is 'not so similar to XP but instead it seems an "improved" Win 98'...

    Ok, so in a short period four pcs were converted to Lubuntu 13.10 from XP. On those machines I installed VirtualBox to use some specific company XP programmes, and in this moment the test is going well.

    Unluckily, we have also some Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo L7320 given to the salesmen for customer reports etc "Ok", I said: Lubuntu also here! No, something doesn't work (as Kansasnoob knows!!), so now people in my company thinks that this choice in not so good and that buying new computers with Windows 8 would be a better choice.... In the meanwhile, in order to acquire knowledge, I've persuaded two friends to install an Ubuntu flavour (one Kubuntu 12.04, the other Lubuntu 13.10).

    So, now I have some installations done behind (not so much like you all, obviously!), and these are some thinkings coming from my little experience till now:

    - no one installation has been easy and has been ok from the first trial: driver problems has been the main ones, and vesa drivers are not attractive for a whole user experience; the installations were successful between the 3rd and the 5th trial

    - at the beginning, finding the right documentation to introduce a beginner used to use only Windows pcs is not so easy. A lot of forums but sometimes it seems like an exclusive club: not so much for someone that wants to start in an easy way

    - I love the terminal, but few users love to solve problems with a cli tool...I wouldn't underestimate the importance of more user-friendly solutions

    - this is a big historical opportunity for the Linux world to have many more users in one shot. I think also however that you can 'convert' a Windows user starting from its actual hardware: in the future, once he will be used to the new OS, he will buy a more specific and compatible hardware. This is a classical vicious circle: if Linux developers won't support the old hardware in order to tempt the users and the companies to keep their actual hardware, saving money today, they will not buy specific and Linux-tweaked hardware tomorrow.

    - Once the installation is done with a good result, all the Ubuntu flavours are very pleasable to use - the difficult is to get this target!!

    - I like computers, but I'm not a computer-geek: if I see that every time I have to do an installation is a problem, I will look for other solutions. Now I'm used to turn-on the pc and to use it without any particular problem, and I'm not obliged to use Power-shell.

    - I've learned that every time there are updatings, something can go wrong: with Xp is rarely happened

    These want to be constructive criticisms: my old pc running Lubuntu 13.10 makes me very satisfied, and I'm still tweaking it with very good results. But I like also to use a pc without doing any activity on the OS. A user experience like an Android device would be nice (from my user's point of view)

    Uh, I wrote too much, excuse me!!
    Where and when did I do that?

    I communicate with so many people that I want to be sure we're on the same page

    I'm thinking here:

    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...e/+bug/1205643

    But I may be mistaken

  5. #155
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    StartUbuntu at The University of Toledo, Ohio, USA

    Hi,

    I forgot to share this with you. Yesterday, one of the students of Toledo University share this picture with me

    2014-02-08 14.02.25.jpg

    I wish and hope that everyone if possible to do his/her best to spread the word at places such us Universities as these places IMHO are the best to promote for such projects/causes.

    Our aim is noble. We're trying our best to draw a smile on people face AND save their money. While I don't like to think about it this way but we can't deny money talks nowadays and when someone will understand he/she can really 'save' by not paying anything for a software nor a hardware, they will consider using Linux. But again, that shouldn't be the main focus. FOSS = Fee and Open Your Mind not Just Save Your Money.

    Spreading the word of StartUbuntu in Real Life is an important key success.

    As for Online Activities, I have asked from ToriOS Website Administrator to add StartUbuntu Banner to the website of my new project:
    http://torios.org/

    Also, I put that on my ugly website (have no time to work on it and it is still new by the way):
    http://amjjawad.net/

    I have asked in the past from everyone to do that on their blogs, website, facebook, twitter, google+, etc.

    The student from University of Toledo who approached me months ago, I offered him and to his University my FULL support and help. They have a project called:
    https://launchpad.net/~rocketsosi

    If there is anyone who lives in Ohio, USA, it would be great if you could help and support those students.

    It is very important IMHO to support such initiative world wide. So, if anyone of us who could do the same, that would be great. Yes, it is extra efforts but I do love it and enjoy every bit of it. I will never be late to share my skills and experience with anyone. I wish I could do more. I feel I did nothing yet

    Thank you!

  6. #156
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    Re: Say Goodbye to Windows XP - StartUbuntu Project

    @ kansasnoob: yes, you are right! that's the page!

  7. #157
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    Re: Say Goodbye to Windows XP - StartUbuntu Project

    Quote Originally Posted by stilnovo1 View Post
    @ kansasnoob: yes, you are right! that's the page!
    OK, lets focus on the FUJITSU SIEMENS AMILO L7320:

    CPU = Intel Celeron M 1.70GHz
    Graphics = VIA P4M800 Pro/P4M800
    RAM = 1GB DDR2

    I know from personal experience that the Openchrome video driver for that graphics chip is broken in Saucy (13.10) and also the 12.04.4 HWE stack for Precise. So using those images is not a possibility. For the benefit of others here's a link explaining the LTS HWE process for Ubuntu Precise:

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack

    Only the 12.04 and 12.04.1 images have the original kernel and X-stack, so they are the only ones that will be supported without major upgrades until April 2017.

    Based on my own experience with VIA P4M800 Pro/P4M800 graphics it will only perform acceptably, or at all, with Lubuntu which uses the Openbox window manager, Xubuntu which uses Xfwm, or the Metacity window manager which is supported by Edubuntu for their LTSP installs. Well, in Precise Metacity is actually supported for Unity-2D in Ubuntu itself but after 12.04 the Unity-2D project was discontinued and I found it to be a bit too heavy for that graphics chip anyway.

    Regardless I really prefer using Ubuntu 12.04.1 images and then doing this:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1966370

    I could try to give many reasons for my preference but let's limit it to support cycle:

    Lubuntu Precise was only supported for 18 months, so it's already EOL.

    Xubuntu Precise is only supported for 3 years so it reaches EOL in April 2015.

    As stated previously Ubuntu Precise itself is good until April 2017, and the components comprising the "classic (no effects)" session will also be supported by Edubuntu until April 2017.

    Now, here you mentioned a lot of other problems regarding installation and grub:

    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...43/comments/39

    I certainly have some ideas

    But I need to take a breather ............... and clean my bathroom before I get reported to the board of health

  8. #158
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    Re: Say Goodbye to Windows XP - StartUbuntu Project

    Quote Originally Posted by stilnovo1 View Post
    @ kansasnoob: yes, you are right! that's the page!
    This bug report should also be of interest to you:

    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...e/+bug/1122991

  9. #159
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    Re: Say Goodbye to Windows XP - StartUbuntu Project

    @ kansasnoob

    After your posts in Launchpad, I've understood the problem regarding the support for HWE. Initially I didn't understand that every following version of Precise has got the HWE of Quantal (12.04.2), Raring (12.04.3) and Saucy (12.04.4). The link you've provided to me is very clear about this.

    So, the last saturday the weather in Italy was very bad and I decided (to try) to format Kubuntu 12.04.4 (I got it from lsb_release -a) and to install a 12.04.1 iso. But the results weren't good, as probably you've already read in the lauchpad page of 'our' bug...

    The frustrating aspect is that with the Livecd session speed, colours, resolution of the graphics are correct (even for 12.04.4), but during the installation something goes wrong. The most curious thing is that while installing Ubuntu 12.04.0 (the only one I was successful), the installation stops until you don't press any key, and it restarts (if you don't keep a finger on a key it's a continous 'stop and go')... but the installation goes wrong anyway, the graphic that was so nice with Livecd session doesn't work after (during the load the screen becomes dark).
    So, the only solution I've found until now to see something on the screen is to put vesa driver in the conf.org file.
    With vesa the colours are correct but quite faded, and the maximum screen resolution is lower (from WXGA to XGA). In the livecd session, where I imagine that the loaded system is simpler than the installed one, screen resolution and colours are perfect.
    Another curiosity: the only installation (I've tried about 11 different installations...) with correct graphic is Kubuntu 12.04.1... it often crashes, it's generally slower but graphic is WXGA and colours are ok (until it works).

    So, I'm now worried for the result I've to expect from 14.04. We have in our Company a total of 6 identical computers like this, although in 2007 laptops were more expensive than now it was considered quite chip (550 euros - about 752USD expended) in that times. Now with the same price level you have better pcs, in 2007 the slump didn't exist.... many people in Italy, even in big companies, don't seriously consider the problem of the end of the extended assistance in XP from Microsoft. Many times you hear answers as "oh, well, we'll install a better antivirus(!!)" or "we don't surf on dangerous websites...".
    Luckily in the Company where I work they listen to me, so now we're seriously trying to study the situation mainly putting beside in a dual boot configuration Xp with ..... (fill in the dots!!). I love Lxde desktop, it's elegant, nice, fast, simple, modern and Lubuntu gives me the chance to have a complete ready working environment with good repositories. And it works with old computers, making them resuscitated. Infact the desktop Pcs with Lubuntu 13.10 are working very well, the users that are testing it consider it very pleasable. I've understood that this year the support for it will end, but I'm confident that 14.04 will work on them (I hope).

    But for those "delightful" Amilo I really don't know what to do: I cannot give to a colleague a thing like that one I've installed. I'm using it, but not everybody can appreciate the fact that now they have something that works quite well with XP, while tomorrow I can only propose faded graphic and lower screen resolution for their laptops!
    The result, then, will be that we continue to buy Pcs with Windows inside, since the experience of today could be not very good with Linux world. It's a pity, in Italy we say 'it's a dog that bites its own tail'!

    Well, I don't know how and where to post this problem, it's from now only 5 months I'm approaching this interesting world, so if you can help me....

    thaks in advance!
    Last edited by stilnovo1; February 11th, 2014 at 10:31 AM.

  10. #160
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    Re: Say Goodbye to Windows XP - StartUbuntu Project

    @stilnovo1

    It should be possible to preserve the good graphics of the live session, when you are running an installed system. It is 'only' a question of finding the correct settings. Unfortunately that 'only' might be difficult

    You can try some re-spin or flavour of Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, for example Bento Linux or Bodhi Linux or some Linux Mint flavour. Maybe one of them will work out of the box with your graphics card.

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