Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 77

Thread: Google and RTFM already!

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Metro ATL
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Lubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Google and RTFM already!

    Sorry, but I need to rant. This seems to be the place.

    I'm a LUG organizer and try to help answer a few questions on the Ubuntu Forums weekly as a way to give back to the F/LOSS community. Over the years, I've learned that helping beginning computer/Linux users is something that I should avoid. Even for family members, I'd get frustrated with their lack of understanding. I'm a bad person for a beginner to seek help from. I know this.

    However .... almost daily, I see non-beginners posting questions that are easily answered by 1 google search or just RTFM (which is a bad abbreviation here). I realize that RTFM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM may be completely new to some people here and the letters might be removed from this initial post.

    When I was learning UNIX, my team members first answer was RTFM, only after I'd read and still couldn't understand something, they'd help. I had to "do my homework first" before wasting anyone elses' time. Those people taught me how to teach myself about Linux commands and tools. At the time, it was frustrating, but after a few weeks, I'd learned to read a man page and saw the fantastic information contained inside them. The only man pages that suck are those that point to some other form of information (like info) or don't exist. Even the Firefox man page has helpful options worth knowing.

    We've lost that skill and I think it is sad. I'm not against hand-holding noobs at all, but the first things we should teach are how to read the man pages and use google to find answers.

    The man pages ($ man man ) are completely awesome. Even after 20 yrs, I still learn new things from the ssh, sudo, and rsync man pages. Amazing tools, those are. I'm positive there are others. Heck, the bash man page is pretty great too and almost everyone uses bash these days.

    So, before asking questions .... please, please, please, please RTFM and show that you have done that **before** asking, unless you truly are an absolute beginner.
    When you do post a question, show that you've done _some_ homework, checked the log files and are struggling with the information before asking.

    Some of the forum moderators here are saints. After I've tried to help some folks for a week and they are still struggling, but refusing to read links provided by others and myself in the thread, it gets extremely frustrating to me. The moderators continue on, answering questions that should have been answered days ago by the reading.

    To non-native English speakers, I appreciate how difficult it is to ask a question here. I'm positive that I couldn't ask an intelligible question in any non-English language. Keep asking - if I can't figure out what you mean, I'll ask too. Before asking here, I know that you've googled and RTFM'd a bunch already.

    I'll try to see a real person on the other end of every post, smile as I'm responding, and be kind. I'll try.

    Ah ... I feel better now. Thanks for reading.

    Anyone else frustrated on either side (asking or answering)?
    Last edited by bapoumba; August 20th, 2013 at 08:45 PM. Reason: Edited fonts

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    albuquerque
    Beans
    543
    Distro
    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Google and RTFM already!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFu View Post
    the first things we should teach are how to read the man pages and use google to find answers.
    I agree with what you're saying, except it doesn't have to be Google, necessarily. I like to suggest doing a "web search" instead saying something like "Google it."

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Ubuntu Studio

    Re: Google and RTFM already!

    Tis the way of the New World Order, laziness, let others do the work for you, etc.

    As you stated, most refuse to even thoroughly examine links provided.

    Sorry, I refuse to use Google. Better to use DuckDuckGo IMHO.

    Foreign language IS NOT A GOOD EXCUSE, type in native language and use a Translator, too easy to get it correct these days. Hur gör du idag? (How are you doing today?)

    What exactly defines a non-beginner?

    If you need info while at work on a non-Ubuntu machine UBUNTU MAN PAGES.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Beans
    1,241

    Re: Google and RTFM already!

    RTFM can be frustrating for new users who just want a problem solved quickly so he/she can get on with life. Google (or web search for those who don't like google) is most helpful in that regard.

    But since this is a rant thread there are two kinds of users whom I feel like smacking over the head.

    1. Show up and post a terse question like "xxx doesn't work" and when getting no reply either just repeat it or bump the thread. Well how do you expect the doctor to help you if you just say "doc I am not feeling well" without any info?

    2. Guy either originated or participated in a thread about some issue which no one has a solution. Then after a while just posted " Never mind,I solved my problem" then took off without giving any info about how he solved his problem so that others may benefit. What a jerk.


    Quote Originally Posted by slw210 View Post

    Sorry, I refuse to use Google. Better to use DuckDuckGo IMHO.
    .
    Yeah problem is I could never find anything with DDG. If google tracking bothers you just install an addon like don't track me .
    Last edited by monkeybrain20122; August 20th, 2013 at 08:51 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ayrshire
    Beans
    39,667
    Distro
    Ubuntu Development Release

    Re: Google and RTFM already!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFu View Post
    Sorry, but I need to rant. This seems to be the place.

    <snip...>
    Perhaps you need a break ?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Across The Pond
    Beans
    748
    Distro
    Xubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Google and RTFM already!

    I got chewed out once for not giving details of the research I had done previously on a question I was asking. I didn't because another time I got chewed out for giving too much detail about what I was asking.

    I don't know if this is the place to mention this, but I'm finding that more and more, my searches come up with less and less of what I'm looking for, even if I put quote marks around my search phrases to group words together. (Then I feel really stupid when I ask on the forums and somebody else pulls up the information at the top of their search.)

    Another problem is that manuals are not always up to date. I've got that problem right now.
    PopularPages, a useful index of the most frequently accessed pages in the Community Help Wiki.

    "Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1
    Beans
    3,988
    Distro
    Xubuntu 13.04 Raring Ringtail

    Re: Google and RTFM already!

    Quote Originally Posted by Buntu Bunny View Post
    I don't know if this is the place to mention this, but I'm finding that more and more, my searches come up with less and less of what I'm looking for, even if I put quote marks around my search phrases to group words together. (Then I feel really stupid when I ask on the forums and somebody else pulls up the information at the top of their search.)
    I think google uses your search history to find what kind of stuff you are interest in to determine relevance
    Laptop: ASUS A54C-NB91 (Storage: WD3200BEKT + MKNSSDCR60GB-DX); Desktop: Custom Build - Images included
    I frequently edit my post several times when I have the last post
    Putting your Networked Printer's scanner software to shame PHP Scanner Server

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Bombay
    Beans
    5,160

    Re: Google and RTFM already!

    Quote Originally Posted by pqwoerituytrueiwoq View Post
    I think google uses your search history to find what kind of stuff you are interest in to determine relevance
    Spot on. I love that feature.
    de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum -- Wiktionary

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Across The Pond
    Beans
    748
    Distro
    Xubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Google and RTFM already!

    Quote Originally Posted by pqwoerituytrueiwoq View Post
    I think google uses your search history to find what kind of stuff you are interest in to determine relevance
    The only problem with this is that if you find yourself clicking what turn out to be irrelevant links, then it keeps brining up more irrelevant links, just because they're now in your history. I find myself wondering, "How do I tell it I'm looking for something else?"
    PopularPages, a useful index of the most frequently accessed pages in the Community Help Wiki.

    "Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Beans
    4,157
    Distro
    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Google and RTFM already!

    Quote Originally Posted by Buntu Bunny View Post
    The only problem with this is that if you find yourself clicking what turn out to be irrelevant links, then it keeps brining up more irrelevant links, just because they're now in your history. I find myself wondering, "How do I tell it I'm looking for something else?"
    I once spent 20 minutes in Google Help, and it has saved me many hours since then!

Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •