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Thread: So are Apache and MySQL the de facto standards for web development?

  1. #11
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    Re: So are Apache and MySQL the de facto standards for web development?

    Quote Originally Posted by LordHunter317 View Post
    Yeah, it means you're not tellign the whole story. Tehre isn't a single large deployment of MySQL out there that doesn't have heavy, complicated, and aggressive caching on top of it to met their needs, and other tricks to work around its many short comings.

    Slashdot? Wikipedia? Yahoo? All heavily use and rely on memcached (far more so than MySQL, in fact).

    And regardless of final deployment target, like I said, there are tons of reasons not to do your development on MySQL.
    So enlighten us about something. Since you make it sound like it's a hundred times easier to switch over to a different DBMS than to apply various measures to 'work around its many short comings', how come they haven't? Or do you consider them (Slashdot/Wikipedia/Yahoo) fools to choose MySQL?

  2. #12
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    Re: So are Apache and MySQL the de facto standards for web development?

    Quote Originally Posted by ifokkema View Post
    So enlighten us about something. Since you make it sound like it's a hundred times easier to switch over to a different DBMS than to apply various measures to 'work around its many short comings',
    No, that's not what I've said.

    What I've said is do your development on a different database. Mainly so you know your schema is correct. Then, port the schema to MySQL and cope with it's shortcomings. You're going to have to cope with them whatever path you take (it's clearly not optional), but my belief is that it's harder to write and verify a correct schema on MySQL than it is on other databases.

    I never said, "Don't use MySQL" even though I could give a long list of perfectly valid reasons as to why to avoid it. However, I accept that avoiding it may not be a pratical option, and I'm OK with that. However, I don't believe that even if one must target it, that one should do initial schema design and verification with it.

    OTOH, you have to be carefully to not totally rely on features or operations impossible to recreate on MySQL too. So there's a downside to my solution.

    how come they haven't?
    The invested amount of work alone may be enough justification not to do it.

    Or do you consider them (Slashdot/Wikipedia/Yahoo) fools to choose MySQL?
    Seeing as I don't know all the reasons why, I can't necessarily make that judgement. What I do know is that choosing MySQL for high performance is going to require a substantial investment in caching and performance tuning to hit your scalability requirements.

    I also know that designing correct schemas in MySQL is hard. Verifying them is even somewhat harder. MySQL 5.0 does go a long way to fixing that, but at this stage it's difficult to mandate it's presence. That may change within a year or two.

  3. #13
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    Re: So are Apache and MySQL the de facto standards for web development?

    Thanks for your explaination. I do have a question, though. You say that designing correct schemas in MySQL is hard. Which issues do you mean here? Are you referencing to things like enforcing primary/foreign key constraints on DBMS level? CHECKs? Views? Stored procedures?

  4. #14
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    Re: So are Apache and MySQL the de facto standards for web development?

    Well, it's a small mixture of everything. It's incorrect handling of NULL and DEFAULT values is one good example. Lack of ACID-compliance for certain statements (LOCK TABLE being the real sore one). Lack of sprocs/UDFs and views is another.

    One can find more if they dig far enough.

    I guess my real point is from a correctness POV it's easier to use a database that's stricter and write your code to it. By writing your code to a stricter standard and then porting to a looser one, you maintain correctness, because you've already shown your code is correct to the stricter standard, even if the database cannot enforce it for you or enforce it as well.

  5. #15
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    Re: So are Apache and MySQL the de facto standards for web development?

    You're all getting off topic. The Answer is yes. Apache is the most common Web Server, and MySQL is the most common SQL Database. I develop projects to be used by a large audiance. If I made my PHP applications for SQL Server I would have a lot smaller audiance than with MySQL.

    -Ryan H

  6. #16
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    Re: So are Apache and MySQL the de facto standards for web development?

    Generally though, the web server shouldn't matter at all and database indepedence is easy enough to achieve, so IMHO targeting just MySQL is silly.

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