Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 114

Thread: Mir: Stop this train before it derails Ubuntu.

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Oita, Japan
    Beans
    425
    Distro
    Ubuntu

    Re: Mir: Stop this train before it derails Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by cariboo907 View Post
    @quequotion, I don't know if you've been following the conversation here, because most of what you have been posting, is just plain FUD. Check out the video link at the bottom of the email.
    I don't trust in plans and roadmaps. I've been using GNU/Linux long enough to understand that how things are planned is rather often not how they work out. Whatever Canonical may say or promise they are going to do, I only put stock in what I actually see getting done.

    As I said before, Xmir (and Xwayland for that matter) are stop-gap solutions. They aren't going to solve the long-term problem that applications need to be ported to something better than X11. Although it may do a nice job of hiding the incomplete display server that's going to ship with 13.10, this is only delaying a more serious issue that Mir will have to face sooner or later: other DEs are not interested in porting to Mir, but they are already working on Wayland ports.

    The more I read that discussion the more I see Oliver Ries making lots of excuses and assumptions with very little substance to them. He seems to have the impression that it's perfectly reasonable to run an entire DE on top of a compatibility layer with no definite plan on how to properly integrate that DE and no guarantee of any kind that Mir will ever be supported by proprietary binary drivers, and that it isn't a problem if other distributions never pick up Mir (because he believes they one day will?)
    Last edited by quequotion; June 28th, 2013 at 08:23 PM. Reason: Sorry, wrong Oliver.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Beans
    277

    Re: Mir: Stop this train before it derails Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by deadflowr View Post
    Until the proprietary driver makers make their choices on what to build drivers for, anyone using their drivers will run X, and mir will be nothing but dead files on their system.
    Yes but 14.04 is supposed to kill of X fallback, as Unity will be tied into Mir.
    This means a lot of borked things for ubuntu and making 14.04 the worst LTS in history, even worse then 12.04.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Oita, Japan
    Beans
    425
    Distro
    Ubuntu

    Re: Mir: Stop this train before it derails Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoGratis View Post
    I wouldn't call it FUD it's just majority of users don't have needed information yet...
    I've done a lot of googling since Canonical announced Mir. There are lots of unanswered questions out there. The fate of the derivatives being one of the most serious. To be honest, I've only ever used KDE once; it's not my thing; but it was Kubuntu's decision to exclude both Mir and XMir from future releases while proceeding with Wayland/KWin and their rational for doing so that got my attention and inspired this thread.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Beans
    699

    Re: Mir: Stop this train before it derails Ubuntu.

    I do believe Debian will offer KDE/XFCE/LXDE/... on Xorg or something Wayland based... If XMir is not an option probably K/X/Lubuntu... will be able to use the work from Debian...

    If Mir in the future proofs as viable solution i don't see why upstreams couldn't change their mind but for that part Canonical will need to prove it can pool it off. Currently Mir is tightly related/intended for/to use with Unity but this might change in the future.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Mystletainn Kick!
    Beans
    5,529
    Distro
    Ubuntu

    Re: Mir: Stop this train before it derails Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadmanRB View Post
    Yes but 14.04 is supposed to kill of X fallback, as Unity will be tied into Mir.
    This means a lot of borked things for ubuntu and making 14.04 the worst LTS in history, even worse then 12.04.
    Personally, I reserve judgement on the TT series until development begins.
    The great thing about the extended support cycle for LTS now, is that if TT is garbage, then simply skip it and see what comes out of 16.04.

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoGratis View Post
    I do believe Debian will offer KDE/XFCE/LXDE/... on Xorg or something Wayland based... If XMir is not an option probably K/X/Lubuntu... will be able to use the work from Debian...

    If Mir in the future proofs as viable solution i don't see why upstreams couldn't change their mind but for that part Canonical will need to prove it can pool it off. Currently Mir is tightly related/intended for/to use with Unity but this might change in the future.
    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTM5NDQ
    Splat Double Splat Triple Splat
    Earn Your Keep
    Don't mind me, I'm only passing through.
    Once in a blue moon, I'm actually helpful
    .

  6. #36
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Beans
    277

    Re: Mir: Stop this train before it derails Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by deadflowr View Post
    Personally, I reserve judgement on the TT series until development begins.
    The great thing about the extended support cycle for LTS now, is that if TT is garbage, then simply skip it and see what comes out of 16.04.



    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTM5NDQ
    Yes but you imply that if 14.04 dosnt work go to 12.04, that would be fine if 12.04 was actually a good release...
    and its not to be honest.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Mystletainn Kick!
    Beans
    5,529
    Distro
    Ubuntu

    Re: Mir: Stop this train before it derails Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadmanRB View Post
    Yes but you imply that if 14.04 dosnt work go to 12.04, that would be fine if 12.04 was actually a good release...
    and its not to be honest.
    We'll simply agree to full-on disagree about Precise.
    I find it to to be a solid release.
    Everything I need to use works, without much tweaking.
    So calling it a bad release because of your own experience doesn't make it so.

    I've run mint, fedora, opensuse, etc releases, which others have called mana from heaven, and myself considered them utter garbage.
    But that doesn't mean any of those are bad, just my experience with them wasn't so great.
    Splat Double Splat Triple Splat
    Earn Your Keep
    Don't mind me, I'm only passing through.
    Once in a blue moon, I'm actually helpful
    .

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Beans
    699

    Re: Mir: Stop this train before it derails Ubuntu.

    I don't believe they will settle with XMir for the whole DEs in the long run. They will be maintaining something Wayland based by themselves or to adopt Mir by default. It's too early to say which option will prevail (if any).

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Beans
    1,937
    Distro
    Ubuntu

    Re: Mir: Stop this train before it derails Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by quequotion View Post
    There will be one important difference...
    Developing for Mir requires agreeing to a license form Canonical that makes your code "Mir derivative"... DEs using X11 or Wayland will become so different from Ubuntu that there won't be much point in maintaining themselves as Ubuntu derivatives. It may even be more practical to re-base back to Debian for distributions that want similarity with Ubuntu but don't intend to use Unity.
    Quite true. Although I think rebasing on Debian wouldn't be all that simple. They would need the resources to massage Testing or Unstable to maintain the currency that Ubuntu users expect.

    I'm concerned about what that means for the future of Ubuntu, as it means lots of users leaving the distribution. Without a userbase, it won't matter what Canonical does with their display server.
    I suspect people will leave or stay with Ubuntu and Unity depending on what's on offer, not depending on the display driver.

    It's my impression that, since Ubuntu is still costing Canonical money, not producing a profit, the move to put Unity on other devices comes in the hope that it can generate some profit. I certainly don't expect Ubuntu-for-desktops to ever make any money, and I doubt Canonical does, either.

    So, if things go well, Canonical will be able to fund continued Ubuntu development out of the returns from the device market. If not, I would expect Ubuntu to be killed off at some point, at least as a project receiving financial support from Canonical or Shuttleworth.

    Mir isn't diversification, it's domination.
    How can it be "domination" when X remains *the* major player and everyone else seems to be on the Wayland bandwagon? The assertion that Canonical is going its own way doesn't synch with the assertion that it's going for "domination".

    ...I don't see why they have to own the components to make use of them... If Canonical had increased their contribution to Wayland, they could have had more influence on it and it might have been ready for distribution release earlier. Rather than contribute so something that could help everyone, they've decided to focus on what's best for them and them alone.
    I think there's long been hard feelings and bad blood between Shuttleworth, et al, and parts of the FOSS developer community. The reasons may or may not be justifiable, but that's not material. He doesn't trust them; they don't trust him. Shuttleworth certainly hasn't bought into the cultural and ideological constraints that many in FOSS seem to accept.

    One reason for not relying on contributions from people who do not work for you is if you have contract commitments to deliver products according to a schedule. Presumably, Canonical will need to do that to play in the device market. They can't depend on needed contributions coming from outsiders who do not -- can not -- work to a schedule.

    Not easy to define indeed. We have a lot of communities coming together to make what I think of as the Ubuntu community. To me this includes all the people who develop software that gets included in Ubuntu (which likely includes people who have never even used Ubuntu) as well as the users of Ubuntu and all of its derivatives...
    I see FOSS as essentially a community by and for developers. Users reap benefits, but I have a very difficult time considering so many disparate users as any kind of a coherent community. We see constant chatter about what the community wants or deserves, etc., etc. Perhaps I'm too cynical, but I have no idea how we are supposed to determine what that "community" wants. There's no accurate way to encompass who is in the "community", much less if it's come to a consensus about something. (I've been an active Linux user since the 1990's and no one has ever presented me with an organized, formal way of expressing my wishes about it.) What happens is that someone reads the tea leaves and announces that consensus.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Mystletainn Kick!
    Beans
    5,529
    Distro
    Ubuntu

    Re: Mir: Stop this train before it derails Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoGratis View Post
    I don't believe they will settle with XMir for the whole DEs in the long run. They will be maintaining something Wayland based by themselves or to adopt Mir by default. It's too early to say which option will prevail (if any).
    Whether the various flavors choose to run xmir or not, doesn't matter to me.
    I simply wanted to point to the fact that they've tested other DE's to see the viabilty of xmir.
    Splat Double Splat Triple Splat
    Earn Your Keep
    Don't mind me, I'm only passing through.
    Once in a blue moon, I'm actually helpful
    .

Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •