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Thread: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

  1. #21
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    Not to pick on you, argvar, but I find it funny that you say Ubuntu is the best Linux distro for new users, but almost every criticism you give is a problem unique to Unity and thus Ubuntu. Almost none of them are issues if you use KDE, GNOME, Cinnamon, Enlightenment, etc.

    As for the filesystem, it's ugly, but it's based on the Unix standard filesystem layout. It may not be intuitive, but on the plus side important parts of the filesystem aren't moved around willee-nillee every release like they are on some OS's I could mention.

  2. #22
    monkeybrain2012 is offline Grande Half-n-Half Cinnamon Ubuntu
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    His "new users" don't really mean "new users", but old Windows users who are very set in Windows' way but new to Linux. They tend to judge Linux based on how much it resembles WIndows. The complaint about File system is a case in point. I almost expect him to complain that Linux doesn't have a registry.
    Last edited by monkeybrain2012; June 26th, 2013 at 04:58 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeybrain2012 View Post
    His "new users" don't really mean "new users", but old Windows users who are very set in Windows' way but new to Linux. They tend to judge Linux based on how much it resembles WIndows. The complaint about File system is a case in point. I almost expect him to complain that Linux doesn't have a registry.
    I never liked how Windows did things. I hated the fact files were scattered throughout the file system, you never knew where things ended up, either in a hidden appdata, in some obscure users directory, program files of course. The registry is really retarded IMO. So your accusation here is a total fail.

    If I install an application I want its files and everything related to it to be contained, isolated, in the same directory. If I delete an application I don't want to worry about some remnant files, I want to simply be able to delete one directory and everything to it is gone.

    Having the config files in /conf/ and binary files in /bin/ and data files in /var/ really is retarded. And you don't have just one /bin/, you have /usr/bin/ etc.

    I whole heartily agree with this guy: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questi...ete-and-obtuse

    I know this is legacy stuff, but hey come on, it's 2013, nobody has the balls to change this? The only truly successful open-source distributions of an OS are the ones proprietary companies like Apple and Google have adopted and drastically modified. Google has more apps created for Android every month than desktop Linux has available. Just saying this because I know some people might think that change is always bad, when in fact it enables everyone else to break out of a cage created by code gurus 20 years ago.

    You know there are legitimate reasons why a lot of people shy away from Linux. Fussing at those who raise points in that regards will not help Linux.

  4. #24
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    Quote Originally Posted by argvar View Post
    If I install an application I want its files and everything related to it to be contained, isolated, in the same directory. If I delete an application I don't want to worry about some remnant files, I want to simply be able to delete one directory and everything to it is gone.
    .

    i think one of BSD versions has something like this. or they jsut have the option to get all packages along. hmmm i forgot that one. as i just read about it once.


    anyway i think the structure makes sense. because what if you run a server? you would then do what? block access to directory and in such way block access to server itself?

    besides you can always see which files are uninstalled. software center is taking care of cleaning and such for you. there is also apt-get. and if you checked a bit you would notice that programmes share their dependencies. it often happens in windows as well. so in your suggestions each programme would have to come with it's own dependencies. meaning the size of the programmes and disk space take would increase (unnecessarily). heh imagine multiple websites on server each running their own server.... anyway i have Xubutnu on a 8GB virtual drive. still with about 1,5GB left i think. when i checked preinstalled win7 starter it took about 30 GB i believe. and better version of this OS take even more disk space. you might think that hard disk is cheap nowadays, but check the price of server disks. and let's not even mention how that disk space occupied with OS just keeps on growing and growing...

    then again if that is what you want the code is open.

    i do agree there is a lot of Garbage or 10th rate programmes in software center. there are also some old non-working programmes there. having 30.000 packages means notnign as there is much much less programmes. there are also PPA's and external sources. some external sources have the programmes like you want them. in single folder.
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  5. #25
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    Quote Originally Posted by argvar
    If I install an application I want its files and everything related to it to be contained, isolated, in the same directory. If I delete an application I don't want to worry about some remnant files, I want to simply be able to delete one directory and everything to it is gone.
    The file manager isn't the package manager; there's no reason to have to delete the files manually. When you remove a package, it's gone; the package manager keeps track of all the files it installed. Some files for some programs also have to be in system folders; after all, installing a calculator app, installing a library that's shared across all applications, and installing a kernel module are all tasks that use the same package manager, and again, there's not really a clear dividing line between "system" programs and "applications."

    There's a further problem in that if you did have a big folder of all the applications, you'd need to decide who owns it. If it's in the user's data directory, then the user could delete programs, sure, but only that user could run them, and they'd need to be installed individually for each user. If it's a shared folder for the system, then the applications could run under any user account, but an individual user still couldn't delete one without jumping through hoops.

    Further complication: if the applications are shared across all user accounts, you still need a folder within the user's personal storage for configuration options, just as there is now. (Of course, there's a reason that applications are kept separate from their configuration files, too - partly, it's just because the application is shared by all users on a system while the configuration files are not, but one particular advantage is that the user can revert the configuration to "factory spec" without uninstalling and reinstalling the program.)

    There's a reason why there's a package manager and why everything goes through that.

    Edit: Ooh, but if we can mandate that all applications store user-specific config in a folder under ~/.config/whatever, instead of some going there, some going to ~/.whatever, and some going to ~/.local/share/whatever or ~/.local/share/somesillymadeuppath/whatever, that'd be awesome.
    Last edited by Copper Bezel; June 26th, 2013 at 07:16 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    One size doesn't fit all. This guy is obviously looking for something that Windows already provides. Case closed. Don't feed the trolls.

  7. #27
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    I came over to Ubuntu 12.04LTS from Mac OS X 10.3.9 and felt right at home in a day or two. Out of all the op systems I've previewed on Live USB stick Ubuntu 12.04LTS seems to be the one I like best.
    If you want more of a "Windows" feel you can get a KDE Desktop with Kubuntu and it'll be more like Windows OS. There's so many different version of "Ubuntu" with Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Linux Mint, PeppermintOS ect that I'm sure you can find something that'll make ya' feel warm and fuzzy. Besides, they're FREE so you can give em' a try without spending a dime which IMHO is totally awesome.
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  8. #28
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    Quote Originally Posted by argvar View Post
    "Understanding design" is just one part of the puzzle, other parts include user convenience, requirements and preference, usability, customization, etc. etc. The fact you cannot even move the launchpad is evidence enough they do not understand.
    I respectfully disagree. Locking down the design shows Canonical is confident enough in their decision that they feel they can guide you in the right direction. I believe there is a fallacy in customization in that software that attempts to be "everything to everyone" ultimately fails. The reason being is that no software developer can code for the infinite number of ways people will end up using the end product. This means users who end up using edge case features will ultimately end up getting hurt. So, by writing opinionated software you are making a statement on how your software should be used. I believe designers know better about using their own software than end users. Turns out, IMHO, Canonical is 100% right! I love Ubuntu precisely because the UI stays pretty much out of the way of my content. It is like one day I suddenly woke up and realized, hey, I just want to get my stuff while having all the OS chrome crap completely out of the way. Yea, it was a bit jarring and weird at first, but I get it, it is absolutely brilliant the way it is done in Ubuntu. Now, if I'm ever on Windows or Mac OS X I move the bar to the side where it should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesemill View Post
    The launcher is only meant to be used for frequently used applications, you can launch rarely used applications from the dash.
    Exactly! It is called a launchpad for a reason. I usually put no more than five which is a hard limit my humble brain puts on managing clutter. Everything else, I get to it when I get to it, so that is why there is a dash.

  9. #29
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    You can put all the files that support one application in a single directory on a very simple OS like DOS. But, once you have an OS of even modest capability, libraries will be written that offer support to any app. Those libraries must exist in an indepedent location, where they won't be removed inadvertantly. Ditto configuration files that must be available to all users on a system. Hence, /etc. (Much naive criticism of the Unix/Linux filesystem stems from unawareness that Unix and Linux are multi-user systems, designed to allow multiple users to log on simultaneously.)

    Fedora, etc., have merged most executables in one folder.

  10. #30
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    I have 10 myself on the unity launcher (dock) but i also removed some of the apps i don't use, like ubuntu one and amazon...They are favorites and fairly frequently used apps...the rest that i rarely use, i just open dash search and get it there...A launcher/dock is not for putting on 100 app of which you probably only use a handful frequently anyway...even on a windows style slab menu, most people only put a small group of apps on, and use search for the rest...that's a pretty common practice...

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