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Thread: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

  1. #41
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    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peripheral Visionary View Post
    That fixed schedule is my one single complaint about Ubuntu. Ready or not it must be released on a certain date....
    I think it would be difficult for a business to operate without a fixed release schedule. Customers need to know. That doesn't mean you need to hold to the schedule if that means releasing a broken product. Delay is called for in that case. (And perhaps a more realistic approach to schedule making.)

    But, something like Debian's totally vague "when it's ready" approach makes it impossible for any customers to make their own plans.

    This is all part of the fundamental tension that must exist in any distribution whose sponsor/funder needs to turn a profit: Community interests and business interests are *never* going to be entirely compatible. The tensions are aggravated by the widespread notion that it's unethical to sell FOSS products.

  2. #42
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    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    Ubuntu:
    I am what I am because of who we all are.
    Nelson Mandela explained Ubuntu as follows:
    A traveller through a country would stop at a village and he didn't have to ask for food or for water. Once he stops, the people give him food and attend him. That is one aspect of Ubuntu, but it will have various aspects. Ubuntu does not mean that people should not enrich themselves. The question therefore is: Are you going to do so in order to enable the community around you to be able to improve?
    So the question is: Are you going to do so in order to enable the community around you to be able to improve?




    Quotes shamelessly ripped off from Wkipedia/Ubuntu
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  3. #43
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    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzingrobot View Post
    I think it would be difficult for a business to operate without a fixed release schedule. Customers need to know. That doesn't mean you need to hold to the schedule if that means releasing a broken product. Delay is called for in that case. (And perhaps a more realistic approach to schedule making.)
    I am glad that they seem to be putting the LTS releases in this category (fixed release schedule) while the in-between is perfect for those that want quicker change and newer features.
    Friends don't let friends wear a red shirt on landing-party duty.
    DACS | Connecticut LoCo Team | My Blog
    Ubuntu User# : 17583, Linux User# : 477531

  4. #44
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    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonbite View Post
    Ubuntu:

    So the question is: Are you going to do so in order to enable the community around you to be able to improve?
    How do you define "the community"? Who's in? Who's out? How do you gain membership? How can you lose membership?

    Who's in charge of the community? How are the community's wishes determined? How are opposing interests reconciled?

    If the perceived need to improve the community conflicts with the need to improve the software, which side wins?

  5. #45
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    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by clearblue View Post
    ...
    The standard-ubuntu targets to high-end pc

    this is actually not the trend needed. small mobile devices, ecology, bad infrastructure, business-costumer, poorer countries, ... have other needs
    ...
    I like that there are flashy desktops available.

    One-size-fits-all is what I dislike so much about Microsoft. There are enough minimal distros out there.

    Edit: For that matter, a lot of those "poorer countries" have their own distros for whatever language they speak, and tailored to the hardware common there.

  6. #46
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    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonbite View Post
    The Ubuntu of now is even more poised to be comparable tit-for-tat with Apple, Microsoft and soon Google products. The old Ubuntu was not.
    Yeah, because Microsoft started to produce total crap (Win7 is still available but it won't last forever). Apple has always produced total crap. And as for Google - it's not hard to beat Android and even easier to beat Chrome OS.

    So make no mistake here, Ubuntu didn't become better. It's just the competition these days is amazingly inferior.

  7. #47
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    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    It is interesting that evolution and change are again and again met with some protest. I started using Linux in general and Ubuntu in particular with the Ubuntu 6.06 (Dapper Drake) release. For me personally the changes and evolution have been positive.

    Consider the following: when I first started using Ubuntu, I had to do a lot of tweaking to get all kinds of things working, wifi was a major issue, monitor support as well, getting certain hardware to work etc..

    About 2-3 years ago I stopped using Ubuntu and Linux due to my job, at work I required the Adobe Creative Suite and so I switched to using Mac at home. Now that I have gone away from design and back to pure web development and coding I have come back to Ubuntu and was pleasantly surprised. I installed Ubuntu 12.04 on my 2010 model iMac and everything worked, no issues with monitors, no issues with wifi, no complaints so far.

    So for me personally, the evolution seems to be one that offers stability and maturity which is great. Despite this, what’s there to stop me from tinkering with the system if I want to do so? So far I do not see anything that’s locked down to the point where I cannot change it if I want to? (Unless I missed something during these 1-2 years where I have been away?).

    Lastly, as has been pointed out, Canonical is a business that hopes to monetize Linux. It was like this from day 1 when I joined. In order to do so they have to provide products and services that enterprise customers can rely on, that means some amount of standardization (a sort of “dumbing certain things down” if you will). The hope is also to keep marketing Ubuntu and Linux to OEMs. There is no way either of these initiatives will succeed if Linux and Ubuntu cannot guarantee stable, productive, compatible and somewhat predictable environments.

    There is no way Ubuntu or Linux can succeed in the mass consumer market if they are (or remain) “quirky”.

  8. #48
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    unisize

    >
    One-size-fits-all is what I dislike so much about Microsoft.
    >There are enough minimal distros out there.
    >

    So you want a very big OS, that is spacially only for a few users? - can not find sense in that
    i think the idea of a standard for starting-point is god. i wanted to say ubuntu-gnome made it even hard to costumize for years and then they changed too much by switching to unity (even if users only update

    >Edit: For that matter, a lot of those "poorer countries" have their own distros for whatever language they speak, and tailored to the hardware common there.
    aha, that is ubuntu: let them do their own thing. wo do not matter. We waste the energy, cause we can not use this special exotic-language-poor-people-distro.

    That sounds raelly good, everyone makes his own buggy distro - would be stupid if everyone works together - no more bugs - bored admins - a nightmare
    Last edited by clearblue; June 26th, 2013 at 12:34 PM.

  9. #49
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    Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PartisanEntity View Post
    It is interesting that evolution and change are again and again met with some protest. I started using Linux in general and Ubuntu in particular with the Ubuntu 6.06 (Dapper Drake) release. For me personally the changes and evolution have been positive.
    6.06 (kubuntu) was my 1st ubuntu, too. Needed only a little polish and worked best on normal Desktop. I can not find the positive changes. Ok - the next year was good. And then no more. Conservative, but nothing perfect too. evolution is a good example (the email-prog why not kmail and other good kde-progs
    Consider the following: when I first started using Ubuntu, I had to do a lot of tweaking to get all kinds of things working, wifi was a major issue, monitor support as well, getting certain hardware to work etc..
    About 2-3 years ago I stopped using Ubuntu and Linux due to my job, at work I required the Adobe Creative Suite and so I switched to using Mac at home. Now that I have gone away from design and back to pure web development and coding I have come back to Ubuntu and was pleasantly surprised. I installed Ubuntu 12.04 on my 2010 model iMac and everything worked, no issues with monitors, no issues with wifi, no complaints so far.
    Happy to hear others a more lucky - my pain is not for nothing. I even had problems with old Sis-onbord-graphiccard working in every distro(ubuntus too). And i bet CRT still running at 60Hz without config - espacially if turned off at boot. Brother-scanner no more working after update 10.04-12.04 ...

    These things can be solved relative easily - but i fear cannonitial do not really want, they want to look nice and flashy, even if useless - maybe this works for them - maybe stores get the ubuntu-hardware back from frustrated people. i do think they lost their ubuntu - (if they really had - all we got were nice words)

    There are other ways to look modern - for example looking be for nerds is cool - so long the user don't has to be
    and there is no danger to look like a childhood-toy like unity

  10. #50
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    Re: unisize

    Quote Originally Posted by clearblue View Post
    >
    >

    So you want a very big OS, that is spacially only for a few users? - can not find sense in that
    i think the idea of a standard for starting-point is god. i wanted to say ubuntu-gnome made it even hard to costumize for years and then they changed too much by switching to unity (even if users only update


    aha, that is ubuntu: let them do their own thing. wo do not matter. We waste the energy, cause we can not use this special exotic-language-poor-people-distro.

    That sounds raelly good, everyone makes his own buggy distro - would be stupid if everyone works together - no more bugs - bored admins - a nightmare
    Dude! Relax a bit. If you speak whatever language it is (Chinese comes to mind) then go download one of those distros and put it on your box. My wife is a native Spanish speaker. I've installed Ubuntu on her laptop, set the native language to Spanish and half of it is English anyway. So Ubuntu is a long way from perfect for language support too.

    I'm using a desktop with a decent dual-head video card, 2x24-inch monitors, an i7 processor, 6 slots full of hardware, SATA ports all used up, usb ports all used up. I'm not using a phone. I want an OS for a desktop, not one for a phone. I want to be able to put whatever I want on there.

    There can be many standard starting points. Ubuntu has a dozen or so variants, Lubuntu is ultra light weight and suitable for smaller systems. Xubuntu is nice and simple, similar to a normal PC desktop. They all come from the same source, they're all in the Ubuntu package manager. If none of those strike your fancy, then go try another non-Ubuntu Debian variant, or Debian itself, or maybe some distro not spawned from Debian. They have more in common with Ubuntu than you seem to think.

    There has never been a one-size-fits-all for personal computers that people actually wanted. Lots of companies have tried it, every one of them was a failure. One-size-fits-all tries to compromise so it can do anything, but as a result can't do anything particularly well.

    At one point Henry Ford sold six times as many cars as everyone else combined. You could have any color you wanted, as long as it was black. You had one car, and it was cheap. Then other companies started adding some luxuries and different colors, and Ford's sales were cut in half in a matter of months. One size fits all does not work. Not if there are any other reasonable choices available.

    Regarding bugs, and how a distro works:
    The operating system is the kernel. Bugs there are fixed by the guys who work on the kernel. Anything called Linux gets a fresh kernel every so often and so those changes trickle out to absolutely any Linux distro whose managers want to get them.

    Everything else is service layer or application layer. Most of that is upstream development, not Ubuntu and not Canonical. Bugs fixed in Firefox are fixed by mozilla.org guys, not by Canonical. Bugs fixed in apache web server are fixed by apache.org guys, not by Canonical.

    Canonical chooses which kernel version to use, which kernel options to compile with, which apps to include, which window manager/desktop arrangement to use, which filesystem standard to use, which platforms to support. They compile all the apps with the standard settings they chose, add some artwork and one or two special tools, they test it to make sure it's working, and they release it to you. Other distros are out there too, and those guys do the same thing with different priorities and different opinions, and that makes a different distribution.

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