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Thread: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

  1. #131
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    Mar 2012
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    Xubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    If not Ubuntu, then Lubu, Kubu, Xubu, Edubu... these are community-developed "distrolets" fully endorsed and supported by Canonical. Xubuntu users who care enough to join the mailing lists and help test stuff or help out in other ways even get to vote on stuff! The same is probably true for the other 'buntus, I don't know, but I can say with certainty that Xubuntu is a true community distro. It's Ubuntu "under the hood," but the Xubuntu team really is a team, really listens to users (again, that is users who care enough to join the mailing list and help out a little), and produces an elegant, smartly put together Xfce distro that still works on older hardware and is especially friendly for users like me with older hardware, coming over to Linux as WindowsXP nears the end of it's support life.

    They do this with the full endorsement and support of Canonical. That, to me, demonstrates that no ubuntu has been lost or diminished. If you don't feel that the flagship distro "listens to the community," I invite you to check out the Xubuntu project, and to join a team which has proven that they really do "listen." You may not get your favorite this-or-that included in the final release, but hey - that's community. And Linux users are not exactly what you mighht call "herdable" animals like cattle or sheep, or even "pack" animals like wolves or foxes. More like cats. Independent, finicky, and as likely to attack each other as they are to attack a mouse or a bird that gets close enough. Yet even we Linux critters can overcome those tendencies and work together to produce an awesome OS that we're all proud of.

  2. #132
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    Nov 2011
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    Lawton, Oklahoma. USA.
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    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonbite View Post
    I tend to agree that Ubunut is evolving and becoming more corporate-like.

    I understand why they are doing it (to become self-sufficient) but that doesn't mean I don't long for the simplicity, flexibility and basically "fun" that Ubunut elicited in the beginning.

    The logo used to be multi-colored before, and the animal names were "fun" and "quirky" and made Ubuntu stand out from the rest. When you pare down Linux distributions enough, there is really very little difference. Ubuntu brought ease of use to Linux and was just like a party more than a platform.

    I would love it if Ubuntu Gnome would try to "go back to its roots" with making Ubuntu fun and quirky again (no necessarily brown) and bring back the multi-color logo. While Gnome isn't as flexibile as it used to be, the Classic Session should elicit some nostalgia (enough Red Hat, not Fedora, will be using it when shipping their next version).

    I still miss my old Ubuntu cap which was black and with the multi-color Ubuntu logo on it.
    Well, if you get the GNOME 3.8 PPA in Ubuntu GNOME, you have the option to install GNOME Classic, also there is adding the MATE repo if that helps, I'm using MATE right now on Fedora 19 and I love it as a DE. Not too crazy about GNOME Classic right now, but then it's only at its first version and hasn't had time to evolve yet..

    Also, Xfce's customizable as all heck, I mean for example, when I was running Xubuntu before I switched to Fedora, and when I installed the Xfce spin of F19 Beta a couple months ago, I tricked out my Xfce desktop to where it was a 90% accurate recreation of GNOME 2.

    Of course you want ultimate customization abilities, go for Awesome WM, Fluxbox, Blackbox, or Openbox. The downside to Awesome, or the *boxes, however, is they require a lot of CLI configuration vs. MATE, Xfce, Cinnamon, GNOME 3.8 Classic, or KDE, in which you got nice GUI utilities for configuration of those DEs.

    Awesome WM or Blackbox especially require a lot of CLI config.

    Cinnamon's a bit more customizable than GNOME 3 or Unity, in addition, and is pretty much in most distro's official repos now, gotta compile it from source in Gentoo, but then again, you gotta compile everything from source in Gentoo.

    Basically, if you want the old Ubuntu back, just add the MATE repo, or install Xfce or Cinnamon, and you'd pretty much be set, while Awesome WM and the *boxes are great alternatives to Unity or GNOME Shell as well if you like messing around in the CLI and getting your hands dirty.
    Last edited by TeamRocket1233c; July 31st, 2013 at 08:05 AM.
    Metal: HP dc5750 | OS: Arch Linux 32-bit | Kernel: 3.14.0-1-ARCH | 1.8GHz AMD Sempron 3400+ | 1.5GiB RAM | 80GiB HDD | DM/DE combo: LXDM + MATE.

  3. #133
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    May 2011
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    5

    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by fontis View Post
    IDK.

    I used to love Ubuntu. Like really love Ubuntu. I loved the project idea. I loved the way it felt like it had such a strong connection to the community and just how "tangible" it was. But lately.. I don't know.

    It just doesn't feel the same. I don't think it's Unity's fault. Actually, I think it probably comes down to the way Canonical has chosen to interact with the users. Maybe it's a PR fail? I don't know. All I know is, things went downhill from the point where Unity was forced down on everyone.

    Right now, I'm a bit puzzled. I mean, I love how Ubuntu has grown and how there's a whole ecosystem surrounding it. And I guess to us who used Ubuntu back when everything evolved around Debian, it kind of offers a nice perspective as to how Ubuntu now has become the center of attention with its own derivatives all over the place.

    But still, I think Canonical and Ubuntu has lost it's "goodguy-greg" feel it used to have.

    I feel the same way. I wich i could add something to this debate but thats it, thats exactly how i feel.

  4. #134
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    Jul 2010
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    VietNam
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    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    I've been a user since I tried 10.04. More precisely I've been a user since I installed MS Vista and lost the functionality of my brand new printer, expensive brand new camera, all my fairly expensive. brand new optical drives and even my optical mouse (probably a coincidence). That's what sent me looking for alternatives. It took a while but I found Ubuntu thanks to a co-workers recommendation.

    Then came unity. I lost the functionality of my separate x-screens and, in fact, my fairly expensive, home made, desktop computer. I can't concieve of using a touch screen for a desk top work station. I use a mouse. I use a key board only when I have to actually write something. I haven't used a keyboard to operate or interact with a PC since before the mouse was invented. So once again I searched and found Mint Mate 13.

    Along the way I've had issues with Ubuntu. PEBKAC mostly but there have been issues with new installs and just some stuff I want to try. I use these forums and if I couldn't find an answer by searching (99% of the time) I posted and got immediate help. I have even contributed when others post for solutions to problems that I have found solutions to.

    But this board has changed in tenor and content. Now it's all about fighting (more than actually honestly debating) changes like Unity and MIR. Asking about problems seems to get derailed by these debates if the problem is related to those changes. People are told to just get lost or more frequently they are told that they can try some other flavour of Linux rather than being given solutions or explanations. This place has definitely gone downhill as the Ubuntu people have seemingly lost interest in everything except their own project. They used to make a desktop OS and help people use it. Now They just seem to be arguing with everyone and telling them to get lost while they build a cell phone and a tablet OS.

    Ubuntu isn't just lost, it's in a coma with the outcome uncertain. Complaining about it is becoming perilously close to complaining in the old USSR.

  5. #135
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    Jul 2009
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    Ubuntu Development Release

    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    Unity is just a dock...no more...no less...dock's work fine...it's just a slightly different approach which you would probably get use to if you gave it a chance....
    People who use windows go to apple stores and go ga-ga over the mac interface and it has a dock, global menu and search just like the unity desktop does except unity's dock is on the left instead of the bottom)...

    And it is very mouse friendly....unlike the new Windows 8 metro interface...I would say Ubuntu is not only not lost but has gone in a great direction...
    Of course, some just can't stand any change...those who have more open minded way of approaching something get the rewards of their efforts...

    It is very simple to use, is attractive and attracts plenty of newbies to it...The best way to use it is, make icons smaller (about 38 pixels) set it to auto-hide and put favorites and most used apps on the dock for quick 1 click access...
    For rarely used apps, just use the search bar ( as it is called)...That's how i use it and that is on a DESKTOP....(well actually a desktop replacement consisting of a 17 screen Toshiba Laptop)...
    and i have no TOUCHSCREEN either...
    Last edited by craig10x; August 1st, 2013 at 06:02 AM.

  6. #136
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    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    I'm not a programmer. I'm a user. I have no idea what a 'dock' is but saying Unity is 'just a' dock or whatever is just a minimization of my criticism.

    I use Mint Mate. When I want to go online I click on the firefox icon that i dragged and dropped onto the top center of my monitor. When I want to use a program like Libre Office, Bleach Bit or System monitor I click on a tiny icon at the top left of my screen. I move my mouse a bit and click on that programs icon. Simple. The only icons on my monitor are my hard drives and occassionally a folder or file that needs my attention or that I am working on. Very clean. I like that set up. Unity is not that. I have to click and click and scroll and type and search to find anything.

    I like having a little tiny button that allows me to switch work places. I like that that button is included. I don't have to wonder where it went, search for solutions, dl it if I find it etc., etc.

    Don't even get me started on the Amazon thing. That kind of crap all by itself stops me from using any software of any kind. I will not install or use anything with spyware or ads. Deal breaker.

    I don't like the new Ubuntu OS. I tried it, I've tried each number to see if it's improved or not. That is fact. That is not me not accepting change. That comment is equivalent to 'only those who just can't stand change don't like the new Ubuntu', 'only those who are open minded like the new Ubuntu'. This is exactly the type of response that I am criticizing in my post above.

  7. #137
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    albuquerque
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    Ubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr

    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    Quote Originally Posted by VietCanada View Post
    I use Mint Mate. When I want to go online I click on the firefox icon that i dragged and dropped onto the top center of my monitor. When I want to use a program like Libre Office, Bleach Bit or System monitor I click on a tiny icon at the top left of my screen. I move my mouse a bit and click on that programs icon. Simple. The only icons on my monitor are my hard drives and occassionally a folder or file that needs my attention or that I am working on. Very clean. I like that set up. Unity is not that. I have to click and click and scroll and type and search to find anything.

    I like having a little tiny button that allows me to switch work places. I like that that button is included. I don't have to wonder where it went, search for solutions, dl it if I find it etc., etc.
    For many of us, Unity is just as easy to use as something like MATE is for you. I use Unity in Ubuntu, but I also use more traditional environments in other distros. I can get around in Unity just as easily as I get around in any other DE. To me, it's really just a matter of setting up the Unity launcher to suit your needs/wants.

    Not trying to convince you that you should use Unity or whatever. Just saying that not everyone has a problem using it like it seems that you do. But I feel like I can adapt to any interface, really, and that's the attitude I had when I started using Unity. Different isn't necessarily worse; but for some people, it is, I guess.

  8. #138
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    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    Well, i want to open my google chrome browser so i click the icon on the unity dock and it opens...i want to play music so i click the rhythmbox icon...same deal...etc etc...no different then doing that on your mate slab menu...I want to search for something that i don't have pinned to the unity bar...i click the search button on top..type a few letters..there it is...click and it's on...just like the search on your mint mate slab menu...same difference...or should i say NO DIFFERENCE...but because it LOOKS different, apparently it seems to freak you out...

    As far as moving around on the various open programs, well you do that by working the various open tabs on your task bar...in unity, you do it right on the unity bar...again...NO DIFFERENCE...except your mouse is working on the left instead of the bottom...

    Get the point? (probably not i would imagine)....

    By the way, if you never heard of a "dock" i have to assume you never played with a MAC...all you probably are familiar with is Windows layout so you expect the desktop to always be essentially identical...
    And i just saw Malspa's post and could not agree more...

    In fact, i use to run Linux Mint myself and used the mint slab menu which i liked...i can work that or unity just as easily to perform all the same functions just as Malspa pointed out....that is why i am always puzzled when someone complains that unity is too strange or difficult to use...
    Last edited by craig10x; August 1st, 2013 at 07:06 AM.

  9. #139
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    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    I had the attitude that I would adapt just as I have adapted to various MS and Linux OSs, but the changes to Ubuntu seem to make it unsuitable for a desktop IMHO and experience. I found this article about difficulties that MS users are having with MS 8 and I think it explains things better than I have been able to. Essentially 'usability expert Raluca Budiu of the Nielsen Norman Group' explains it this way- MS 8 is configured for content consumption whereas MS 7 was configured for productivity and multi tasking. That's what I think about the new Ubuntu compared to the old Ubuntu or Linux Mint Mate. I don't need my desktop configured for content consumption, I have configured Firefox for that purpose.

    Here is a link- http://blog.laptopmag.com/windows-8-...prise-preview?

    You probably have to scroll down the page a little bit to click on another link- a blue sentence- called this sudden loss of context

    This expert does a nice job of explaining how changes like getting rid of the start button (or Ubuntu equivalent) and replacing it with a system that requires more work (physical clicking and mental calculation) negatively impacts the user. She also (as I indicated above) does a nice job of characterizing the actual change in the user's experience with the two different systems.

    I need a multi tasking work station. I can watch a movie, play a 3D game, read/compose emails or posts, read whatever interests me on the net, use Libre Office to work on scheduling, budgeting and other things. I can do that on many platforms with great ease. i just do it. It seems I have to configure the new Ubuntu with all the work and potential problems, possible system effects (increased computing power usage? slowing down?, more crashes, freezes?).

    I have been dual booting with Ubuntu 13 but frankly I have had no reason to boot into U13. Doing that instead of booting into U10 or Mate just means a loss of productivity. I can't use seperate x-screens which pretty much kills most of my experience, I have to search for, remember, get used to hidden buttons and menu bars for windows, programs I minimize just disappear from sight altogether. My first experience with U12 when I was trying to access the menu at the top the window was almost nightmarish. when I finally realized that I could only access one window menu if I maximized a menu, that I had to minimize (completely lose sight of) an open window in order to access another window, then find out how to get my original window back.. jeesh who the heck tested this stuff anyway? Simply it was the second worse experience I've ever had with a new OS. MS ME being the undisputed champion.

    I cannot adapt to that because it wasn't designed for me. Just like I can't adapt to size 4 shoes.

    This isn't just about change, it is about a change of priority for the OS. A change from very easy productivity and multi tasking on an OS designed for that purpose to an OS designed for passive content consumption that must somehow be adapted and configured to possibly mimic the the other. I am a user not a programmer. I want to turn it on and it works. If I had a tablet I might be happy to put the new Ubuntu on it but I think some of the (hidden) window buttons may be two small and I'd have to switch to an OS dedicated to tablets. I need an OS dedicated to desktop productivity and multitasking. Out of the box. An OS dedicated to passive content consumption is useless to me. U12+ is useless to me. It's a shame because it looks really shiny and I'd love to use it but...

    I do configure my OSs. I install things that I like or find useful (hopefully). But the changes I'd have to make to the new Ubuntu have already been made for me by the professional programmers that created Mint Mate. A truely dedicated desktop productivity and multitasking OS.

  10. #140
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    Re: Has Ubuntu lost it's Ubuntu?

    I started with Amiga so I am used to that. Switching to MS ME was a nightmare.

    If I designed a desktop OS it wouldn't have a menu/start button in the corner. It would be dead center in the middle of the monitor, and very small. Clicking or mousing over it would open the simple categories that software is sorted into, say, system, games, productivity, multi media. Selecting or mousing over one of those would lead to all the programs in that category. It would be circular maybe. LOL. So no I am not just used to windows start button. I've never liked that either and it just got worse with Vista and 7.

    I want to play a game, watch a movie, use libre office and access the internet perhaps all at once on two different monitors. Seperate screens not copies of a single monitor that require me to move windows around and remember where they are, put them back whatever. I have been doing this for years and thanks to Mint Mate I can continue to do so into the foreseeable future. I do not want a single app to take over my entire visual system like U13 is set up to do. I don't care how I access my software but I want it be as simple or simpler than before like Mint Mate offers not more complex as U13 is.

    If the dock is that huge immovable bar on the side of the monitor, I hate it. I want a clean desktop. One icon for the net, one icon for access to my system and software. Making it go away when I'm not using it is just annoying in the end when it keeps popping up, except when I want it. I know this because MS has had the disappearing bar as an option and I have tried it a few times. I don't like it.
    Last edited by VietCanada; August 1st, 2013 at 08:08 AM.

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