Cloneing vs External Drive

[GUZZLR]

Hello All
I have an external 1TB NTFS drive in a case which I seldom use. I have an HP Widows 7 with a 500GB drive which is about 65% filled. I was going to clone the old 500GB to the new 1TB drive, install it into the HP. and install Ubuntu 13.04 as a Dual Boot.
Here's my question:
1. Instead of all that, why can't I just keep the 1TB as an external (hooked up via eSATA), install 13.04 to the external, therefore keeping my 500GB inside the HP?
2. Won't Ubuntu recognize the external drive and ask if I want to load the OS on that drive; thereby; running along side Windows in the HP?
3. If this can happen, when I boot the machine, will Ubuntu still ask which OS I want to boot into?

Thanks for the help

[ahallubuntu]

Are you planning to extract the external drive from its case and install it internally? If not, you won't be able to boot Windows. You can't run Windows from an external drive.

You CAN run Ubuntu from an external drive, if you wish.

[GUZZLR]

I think you just answered my question. I wanted to keep the Windows disk internally, and the Ubuntu disk externally. when I load the the Ubuntu install disk, will it allow me to load Ubuntu onto the external drive, and keep windows operating as normal interanally? And, will it give me the option which disk I want to boot to (internal or external) to choose OS.
Thanks

[ahallubuntu]

Yes, you can install Ubuntu on the external drive without disturbing the internal Windows drive. In fact, you can probably use just a tiny portion of the external drive for Ubuntu - maybe 20GB - and leave the rest as NTFS (or just shrink the existing NTFS partition by 20GB or so using Gparted, then install Ubuntu in the free space.

However, you must be careful: during the installation of Ubuntu, make sure you choose the location of the Grub boot sector as your external drive, not your internal drive!!!! I have never installed 13.04, but in 12.04 you can choose the location where Grub's boot sector will be written. Typically, the internal drive would be /dev/sda and the external drive (with nothing else connected) would be /dev/sdb but be sure you which is which during the installation so you get it right.

Afterward, to boot Ubuntu, you'll need to use your BIOS boot menu - on a Dell you hit F12 to get a boot menu, not sure what the key is on an HP (sometimes you must also enable that feature in BIOS Setup). When you choose the external hard drive, you'll get a Grub boot menu but if you choose the internal drive it will boot right to Windows like it does now. You could also set your BIOS to default to booting from the external drive, I suppose, but it will be easier if you get used to using the BIOS boot menu I think to choose the external drive and boot Ubuntu.

[Mark Phelps]

The SAFEST thing to do in this situation is to have ONLY the external drive connected when you install Ubuntu. That way, you won't have to worry about accidentally installing GRUB to an internal partition and, quite possibly, hosing up Win7 booting in the process.

[sudodus]

I run Ubuntu from an eSATA drive in a multiboot environment. No problems at all. If I understand it correctly, the computer does not make any difference between a drive that is connected via eSATA and a drive connected via normal SATA (internally). I haven't tried with Windows from eSATA, but Grenage has. See post #17. It works but is not portable. We all know Windows does not run from USB except during installation or as PE (preinstallation environment).

Anyway, I agree with Mark Phelps, install Ubuntu to the eSATA drive and if possible, disconnect the internal drive during the installation.
Shut down, connect the internal drive, boot and run

sudo update-grub

which should find Windows and make an entry for it in the grub menu.

[GUZZLR]

I run Ubuntu from an eSATA drive in a multiboot environment. No problems at all. If I understand it correctly, the computer does not make any difference between a drive that is connected via eSATA and a drive connected via normal SATA (internally). I haven't tried with Windows from eSATA

So on your set up, running eSATA, when you turn on the machine, Ubuntu ask if you want to boot into Ubuntu or Windows? I agree the computer should not tell a difference between Internal SATA, or external SATA...they're both the same interface going directly to the mobo.
Thanks

Also, I like the idea of pulling the Windows drive and running directly to eSATA drive. had not thought of doing that

[GUZZLR]

Yes, you can install Ubuntu on the external drive without disturbing the internal Windows drive. In fact, you can probably use just a tiny portion of the external drive for Ubuntu - maybe 20GB - and leave the rest as NTFS (or just shrink the existing NTFS partition by 20GB or so using Gparted, then install Ubuntu in the free space.

When I install Ubuntu, won't Ubuntu create a small partition just for the OS...I thought it did that automatically. Thanks

[ahallubuntu]

When I install Ubuntu, won't Ubuntu create a small partition just for the OS...I thought it did that automatically. Thanks

It's an option during installation, yes, but I wouldn't do the "automatic" option. Ubuntu may choose to make a larger partition than you need. Personally, I'd create the space I needed manually and choose manual partitioning. You really need only two partitions, one for / and one for swap. You would need to shrink the existing NTFS partition (assuming you keep it) and create the new partitions. (Shrinking would be quick if the partition is nearly empty now.) It's fine to create one extended partition and then two logical partitions inside of it - Ubuntu doesn't care if you use primary or logical partitions for the OS.

I missed that it was eSATA - yes, that would work just like an internal SATA drive so you could go with your original option to clone Windows to the external drive and add Ubuntu partitions. You can clone with Gparted and a live CD if you wish - it works quite well that way, especially if you then install Ubuntu on the same drive and use Grub to choose which OS to boot.

[C.S.Cameron]

Following is step by step for making a Full install of *buntu 12.04 on a USB hard disk drive, installing 13.04 almost the same.
All partitions except / are optional.

Turn off and unplug the computer. (See note at bottom)
Remove the side from the case.
Unplug the power cable from the hard drive.
Plug the computer back in.

Insert the Live CD or Live USB.
Start the computer, the CD/USB should boot.
Insert the target USB drive.
Select language
Select install Ubuntu.

Select Download updates while installing and Select Install this third-party software.
Continue

At "Installation type" select "Something else".
Continue

Confirm Device is correct.
Select "New Partition Table"
Click Continue on the drop down.

(Optional partition for use on Windows machine)
Start with an external drive that has been formatted NTFS.
Click "Free space" and "Add".
Select "Primary".
Make "New partition size..." as large as required.
Location = Beginning.
"Use as:" = "do not use this partition".
Leave "Mount point" blank.
Select "OK"

Click "free space" and then "Add".
Select "Primary", "New partition size ..." = 5000+ megabytes, Beginning, Ext4, and Mount point = "/" then OK.

(Optional home partition)
Click "free space" and then "Add".
Select "Primary", "New partition size ..." = 5000+ megabytes, Beginning, Ext2, and Mount point = "/home" then OK.

(Optional swap space, allows hibernation)
Click "free space" and then "Add".
Select "Primary", "New partition size ..." = remaining space, (1000 to 2000 megabytes, or same size as RAM), Beginning and "Use as" = "swap area" then OK.

(Important)
Confirm "Device for boot loader installation" points to the USB drive. Default should be ok if HDD was unplugged.

Click "Install Now".
Select your location.
Continue.

Select Keyboard layout.
Continue.

Insert your name, username, password, computer name and select if you want to log in automatically or require a password.
Selecting "Encrypt my home folder" is a good option if you are worried about loosing your USB drive.
Select Continue.

Wait until install is complete.
Turn off computer and plug in the HDD.
Stick the side panel back on.

Note:
You may omit disabling the hard drive if, when partitioning you choose to install grub to the root of the usb drive you are installing Ubuntu to, (ie sdb not sdb1). Be cautious, many people have overwritten the HDD MBR.
Do an sudo update-grub If you want to boot your system from the grub of the external drive, as sudodus noted.