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Thread: Is this why Gnome self-destructed?

  1. #1
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    Is this why Gnome self-destructed?

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06..._desktop_fail/
    Please tell me it isn't true. Did Microsoft really do everything first? Has everyone else been running while looking over their shoulder?


    EDIT: I ask that people stick to the subject and refrain from discussing what we think about Gnome 3 and related desktops.

    The term "self-destructed" is obviously not literally correct, and perhaps I erred on the side of hyperbole. However, Gnome drastically altered (and possibly broke) user space, broke APIs, forked into 6 different desktops, essentially lost their largest distro, lost developers, and lost many of their users to other desktops. (Yeah, I know, technically some of those are extensions, not forks. Nevertheless, all this divides developer and user attention.) Whatever else you think, I hope you can all agree that this is a problem. Now I hope we can stick to the subject.
    Last edited by VanillaMozilla; June 6th, 2013 at 05:11 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Is this why Gnome self-destructed?

    Probably not first, but the first to get those desktop elements out on a widely-accepted scale, such that everyone got used to them. Now, two decades on, everyone can misuse the term "intuitive"

    Call me sensitive, but I also thought I detected the tiniest hint of dislike for Gnome 3 from the author. I don't expect it influenced his journalistic integrity, though

  3. #3
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    Re: Is this why Gnome self-destructed?

    More importantly, is Gnome 3 an attempt to evade MS patents? And has MS really patented everything except the numbers 0 and 1? Scary.

    I hope we can refrain from discussing what we think about Gnome 3 and related desktops. I don't know what the author thinks about Gnome 3, but there's no doubt that there's trouble.

  4. #4
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    Re: Is this why Gnome self-destructed?

    I prefer Gnome 3 over Gnome 2, and I have more posts here than y'all combined, so if you're going to blame anyone, blame me.
    Gnome didn't "self-destruct;" it just evolved.

  5. #5
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    Re: Is this why Gnome self-destructed?

    I agree. As for me, I like gnome 3 and it is now getting much better than it was initially. It is evolving, we just have to give it enough time

  6. #6
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    Re: Is this why Gnome self-destructed?

    Let me re phrase my deleted post.
    It is in my opinion that the gnome developers have lost touch with their users, thats the main reason why gnome has faltered.
    For me its clear they dont care about the end user, they dont care how many features they lost as long as they can use it.
    Again this is my opinion, if it sounds bitter and targeted at the developers its because I rather be honest in my opinions then walk around egg shells afraid of infractions and banning.
    I think we should all be honest in the future, face these issues and confront them.

    Quote Originally Posted by vadimkolchev View Post
    I agree. As for me, I like gnome 3 and it is now getting much better than it was initially. It is evolving, we just have to give it enough time
    May I ask how is gnome 3 is better now?
    It seems every time you turn your head in gnome more features are lost not gained.
    By the next gnome will just have a small button in the corner that activates a terminal, nothing more at this rate.

  7. #7
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    Re: Is this why Gnome self-destructed?

    The people who use and enjoy Gnome 3 don't count as "users" according to your definition?

    May I ask what you, personally, have contributed to the Gnome Project? They are always looking for volunteers: http://www.gnome.org/get-involved/

    They aren't mind readers... if you aren't getting involved and contributing your ideas, then how can you criticize them for being "out of touch" with the ideas you haven't communicated to them?

    You ask "how is Gnome 3 better?" and I would reply: 1. it jettisons the obsolete 1970's Xerox PARC "desktop metaphor" and 2) it is faster and more efficient for my particular, personal workflow. But that's just me... you're entitled to your own opinion, of course. But you might want to be careful translating that into personal attacks agains the developers. I don't like okra, but I don't call okra farmers the things that you have said in this thread.
    Last edited by snowpine; June 6th, 2013 at 02:16 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Is this why Gnome self-destructed?

    No I have not contributed, as I am not a coder.
    I am an end user and I should not have to learn source code to get from point a to point b.
    And yes it seems the gnome developers are on some other planet in my opinion, not caring about anyone but other coders.
    And really how is stripping down something improving it, its like saying a bike should not have wheels as those are old fashioned and instead it should use little legs on them.

  9. #9
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    Re: Is this why Gnome self-destructed?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanillaMozilla View Post
    Please tell me it isn't true. Did Microsoft really do everything first?
    Well, The Register tends to be heavy on the sensational and light on real useful analysis.
    So the facts may (sometimes) be right, but the pattern or conclusion they draw may be utterly bonkers.

    No, Microsoft did very little first. Nor did Toyota build the first cars. Nor did the Soviet Union create the first big empire in Asia. Nor did the British or Americans invent transnational banking.

    Gnome has not self-destructed at all. The project has suffered from a few problems - some self-created, other externally imposed. None are insurmountable. Even with problems, Gnome (of whatever flavor, including G2, G3, Unity, etc.) is still a hugely popular desktop environment with a large developer community. And will remain so.

    Leadership in a internationally-distributed project is hard enough. I've run distributed teams before, and it's *really hard* to ensure quality and productivity.
    It's even harder when many of the contributors are volunteers. There's always the perception of that the volunteers are being foolish when others are paid.
    It's even harder when many participants are young and smart. They can be opinionated and undiplomatic, unintentionally starting tempests.
    It's even harder when the project is highly specialized and technical. Easy to sidetrack participants into red-herring arguments.
    It's even harder when all leadership takes place in a fishbowl, a transparent environment where every proposal and decision can be endlessly re-debated.
    I'm surprised anyone wants to step up and try to lead these teams at all. What a thankless task.
    Last edited by Cheesehead; June 6th, 2013 at 02:34 AM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Is this why Gnome self-destructed?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadmanRB View Post
    No I have not contributed, as I am not a coder.
    Did you even bother clicking the link?? Gnome Project is looking for: writers, translators, testers, and graphic desingers in additon to coders. If you think Gnome sucks then contribute and make it better, or fork the project and call it Madman DE or something. Open source means freedom.

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