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Thread: Best online / brick and mortar vedors for ubuntu laptops?

  1. #11
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    Re: Best online / brick and mortar vedors for ubuntu laptops?

    Thanks sandy and others for your reply . the more I read UEFI, ( outside simple BIOS that i am aware of ) the more complicated it looks ...? But well , let me buy my computer first and then worry


    Also
    whats the best version of Linux to start with, considering that I am definitely buying a windows 8 or windows 7 computer manufactured during or after 2012 ..... Are there some ubuntu versions that do most of the work automatically without worrying about UEFI and etc....

  2. #12
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    Re: Best online / brick and mortar vedors for ubuntu laptops?

    Quote Originally Posted by tubbygweilo View Post
    Adam, you may not be able to use existing windows applications or even user created content that has been locked to windows applications but that may not be the end of your world as https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Sw...tu/FromWindows gives you an idea of what to consider when moving from Windows to Ubuntu. Ubuntu / opensource applications may then be able to extract and export any Windows locked data and move it into a Ubuntu environment.

    Keep asking questions and we will try to answer them.
    thanks tutubby that page was very helpful

  3. #13
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    Re: Best online / brick and mortar vedors for ubuntu laptops?

    All Windows 8 systems have UEFI with secure boot.
    The end of the production of Windows 7 had some systems with UEFI, most were BIOS. But without secure boot Ubuntu installed easily, there are a few bugs in Linux, most related to working around secure boot. Also vendors are updating UEFI as they have bugs in the UEFI implementation.

    You will need to use the 64 bit version of 13.04, 12.10 or 12.04.2 and from the UEFI menu boot the flash drive in UEFI mode. That way it will install in UEFI mode.
    Systems need quick boot or fast boot turned off in UEFI settings. Vital for some systems.
    Use Windows Disk Tools to shrink Windows main partition, but not to create any new partitions, if installing on same drive. Reboot after shrink so it can run its repairs to its new size.
    Backup efi partition and Windows partition before Install of Ubuntu.
    https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
    https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/UEFI
    As of 12.04.2, it is possible to install on UEFI systems with Secure Boot enabled (using signed versions of Shim, GRUB, and the Linux kernel). This is only currently set up for Ubuntu (desktop, alternate, and server) and Edubuntu images due to pressures of time; we expect to enable it across the entire Ubuntu family for 12.04.3. Details:
    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePango.../UbuntuDesktop
    Installing Grub for UEFI secure boot is only possible if you have booted your system using EFI.

    Some seem to have better success than others, it may be expectations. If certain function only partially works some may think it is ok, and others a total failure, even though similar issues in Windows may be ignored. Windows forums have lots of posts of issues also.

    There are a lot of threads on UEFI booting by many different brands. A few seem to not work.


    Dell XPS13 general info mega-thread
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1932965
    Question about Dell's Ubuntu Preloaded XPS 13 Developer Laptop Link to review, Sputnik
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2106590

    Higher end UltraBooks have more issues as the small SSD uses Intel SRT with RAID which causes issues. And they have dual video and no current support from nVidia. You can use Bumblebee.

    I liked the one user who said he buys a higher end system with just hard drive. Removed hard drive with Windows and puts it on shelf so he can later sell computer with Windows. Then buys a new SSD and installs Ubuntu.
    Last edited by oldfred; May 1st, 2013 at 04:42 AM.
    For info on UEFI boot install & repair:
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295
    Please use Thread Tools above first post to close thread when/if answered completely.







  4. #14
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    Re: Best online / brick and mortar vedors for ubuntu laptops?

    thanks Oldfred

    You and posters here have been quite patient so far. More patience is requested as more Win_notice questions are likely to appear en route !!

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    All Windows 8 systems have UEFI with secure boot.

    • A new laptop I buy now is most probably going to have UEFI. So, lemme assume gone are the BIOS days.
    • I shall buy a HDD laptop not an SSD laptop (based on later portion of your thread)
    • I will have just one HDD. Am NOT thinking of changing HDDs [NO HDD on the shelf user ] long time since I opened a laptop all by myself (actually never did I open a laptop!!)
    • By the grace of the lord and thanks to world moving to petabytes, I can buy a laptop with 750 GB or so capacity
    • Laptop would have windows already on it ...seems to be cheaper to buy one with windows on !!
    • Windows = windows 8 in all probablity
    • Rest of the post is based on above assumptions


    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    The end of the production of Windows 7 had some systems with UEFI, most were BIOS. But without secure boot Ubuntu installed easily, there are a few bugs in Linux, most related to working around secure boot. Also vendors are updating UEFI as they have bugs in the UEFI implementation.
    For once I am happy that cars, microwaves and refregirators haven't evolved as fast as computers. I can get into most cars and figure out the gear shift, brake, gas pedal and steering wheel in under 1 minute [though the lever to open the gas tank door may be something else ]

    As far this linux install goes, please assume that I am like a win_martian new to this Linux_earth

    Once again, why am I needing a laptop : Third and fourth bullet points here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...3#post12626203

    I have written detailed questions so that you can reply in short sentences like "yes, right ..", no change etc.....

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    You will need to use the 64 bit version of 13.04, 12.10 or 12.04.2
    I read that as follows :
    • buy win laptop
    • connect to internet
    • download and save 64 bit version of 13.04, 12.10 or 12.04.2 Ununtu on your windows machine's HDD
    • [optional] While still working with the windows machine, use Linux Live USB creator http://www.linuxliveusb.com/ or something like that and create a bootable Linux (Ubuntu) USB , because a character called bootable USB will figure later in the drama and you need to handle him
    • right ? or ?


    further question :
    • Please suggest JUST one version. 13.04 ? or 12.10 or 12.04.2..
    • just one which you would choose IF you had to advise me with JUST one choice for PDF / ODF, Calc, docs, power point / presentations, browsing , web mail, password manager use. Minimal you tube. NO gaming
    • absolute Linux_novice user


    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    and from the UEFI menu boot the flash drive in UEFI mode. That way it will install in UEFI mode.
    I read that as follows :
    • Boot from flash drive
    • At some point a menu would pop up asking do you just want to boot or install ?
    • do NOT choose erase all your HDD and dad's HDD option also called the slash and burn mode
    • go to live and let live mode or the "..install alongside ...more..."
    • right ? or ?


    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    Systems need quick boot or fast boot turned off in UEFI settings. Vital for some systems.
    more explanation please. How does one turn off fast boot ? I know you gave me a link ... but could you just help with a shorter explanation ? if not, I'll read that link again !!

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    Use Windows Disk Tools to shrink Windows main partition, but not to create any new partitions, if installing on same drive. Reboot after shrink so it can run its repairs to its new size.
    read as is, this looks like an absolute hurdle.
    IF this is the only way this can be stated, this Martian is close to abandoning earth mission and jump out of ..err into the window$ !!

    So ...

    1. Is there an easier , step by step way ?
    2. Is there a way to avoid all this shrink the disk, create new drives, add controller cards, turn laptop upside down etc ??

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    Backup efi partition and Windows partition before Install of Ubuntu.
    https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
    https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/UEFI
    the links you mentioned had more links and those links had even more links and ....... beyond a point ....yarn ... sorry ... I'm lost ....

    I can see you may get quite angry here...

    please assume that all processors do NOT have the same clock speed... I'm talking of my brain here


    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    As of 12.04.2, it is possible to install on UEFI systems with Secure Boot enabled (using signed versions of Shim, GRUB, and the Linux kernel). This is only currently set up for Ubuntu (desktop, alternate, and server) and Edubuntu images due to pressures of time; we expect to enable it across the entire Ubuntu family for 12.04.3. Details:
    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePango.../UbuntuDesktop
    Installing Grub for UEFI secure boot is only possible if you have booted your system using EFI.
    I read this as
    - IF I choose 12.04.2 it would be easier to just go about installing ubuntu alongside windows

    or ?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    Some seem to have better success than others, it may be expectations. If certain function only partially works some may think it is ok, and others a total failure, even though similar issues in Windows may be ignored. Windows forums have lots of posts of issues also.
    No issues ... err... I mean no issues about there being some small issues ...., well lets make it simple and say the lord will open more doors than closing window$ !!


    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    There are a lot of threads on UEFI booting by many different brands. A few seem to not work.
    Dell XPS13 general info mega-thread
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1932965
    Question about Dell's Ubuntu Preloaded XPS 13 Developer Laptop Link to review, Sputnik
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2106590
    good you warned me. I'll give up on ultra costly stuff. Also satisfies my value for money false ego !

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    Higher end UltraBooks have more issues as the small SSD uses Intel SRT with RAID which causes issues. And they have dual video and no current support from nVidia. You can use Bumblebee.
    My thoughts : BUY A workhorse Win 8 laptop with HDD . possibly go for a windows CD and step by step instructions to re install windows... If all fails knock at Bi$$ gate$'s door ..err window !

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    I liked the one user who said he buys a higher end system with just hard drive. Removed hard drive with Windows and puts it on shelf so he can later sell computer with Windows. Then buys a new SSD and installs Ubuntu.
    if this ex-windows and now linux user still has this laptop and is ready to sell, may be I should buy it from him with just the linux HDD ..... may be I should start here and it will save this community a lot of worry !!

    Just as I type that a biz Idea seems to blossom.... but well ...forget it ... none of my business !




    -----------

    regards

  5. #15
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    Re: Best online / brick and mortar vedors for ubuntu laptops?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamTudor View Post
    • Laptop would have windows already on it ...seems to be cheaper to buy one with windows on !!
    When I bought my laptop for €864 (import taxes, you know) I told the shopkeeper: `No, I don't need Windows, I will install Linux anyway.' When I picked it up two days later the man told me: `Sorry, we forgot and already installed windows.' I think I read somewhere in the end users agreement or something like it that it's possible to return the license sticker to Microsoft and get a small refund.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamTudor View Post

    • Please suggest JUST one version. 13.04 ? or 12.10 or 12.04.2..
    • just one which you would choose IF you had to advise me with JUST one choice for PDF / ODF, Calc, docs, power point / presentations, browsing , web mail, password manager use. Minimal you tube. NO gaming
    • absolute Linux_novice user
    If you don't need the latest available I'd advise 12.04. It has long term support (meaning you'll get security updates) until April 2017. 12.10 has support until April next year, just long enough so you can then move on to the next long term support version, 13.04 only to January next year. Upgrading is something most beginners don't want to do too often. Later versions come with newer software, but one year old may not make much of a difference. The only catch is that if you get really recent hardware you may need 13.04 for the driver support. You can test that while running the live disk.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamTudor View Post

    • Boot from flash drive
    • At some point a menu would pop up asking do you just want to boot or install ?
    • do NOT choose erase all your HDD and dad's HDD option also called the slash and burn mode
    • go to live and let live mode or the "..install alongside ...more..."
    • right ? or ?
    You can boot the live disk. As long as you don't tell it to install and go through a whole lot of menus it won't do anything to your hard drive. Use it for testing.

    When I first installed Ubuntu (version 6.06, dual booting with Win XP) I didn't know what I was doing, but everything worked at once. It sounds more complicated than it really is.

    I'll leave the rest of the questions for someone else.

  6. #16
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    Re: Best online / brick and mortar vedors for ubuntu laptops?

    I have not used Windows Disk Management to shrink a Windows install. But you do that all from inside Windows. While most say you can use the installer, some have reported issues with Windows afterwards. I do not have a link for Windows 8 but assume it is not a lot different than 7 or Vista.

    shrink the primary partition from the Windows MMC or Disk Management.
    http://www.thpc.info/how/shrink_part...s_7_vista.html
    You can also try downloading and installing the FREE version of Partition Wizard in Win7. It may allow you to safely shrink the Win7 OS partition more than does MS.


    Backup windows before install - post by Mark Phelps
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...0#post12611710
    http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.asp
    Another suggestion by srs5694
    http://www.runtime.org/driveimage-xml.htm

    While there are advantages to the long term support and it will keep getting security and other fixes, most software is not upgraded. New version has the latest versions.
    One poster using a new Dell said they had to use a PPA (someone not Ubuntu offering software who you have to trust) to install all the extra drivers and get new Dells to work. But 13.04 has all those newer drivers built in. But then you will have to upgrade in 9 months. The Dell threads I posted were on one's that worked.

    The Arch site on UEFI is more technical to explain about UEFI, but you do need to follow the directions on the help Ubuntu link which I think are really the same as my quick version, but with more info.

    I think Fast Boot is a Windows setting and it is a hibernate to make you think it is booting faster.

    WARNING for Windows 8 Dual-Booters
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1953674
    It defaults shutdown to a hybrid hibernation/off state for fast boot
    http://www.kapilarya.com/how-to-enab...p-in-windows-8
    But then files may be corrupted similar to Windows 7 Hibernation:
    http://ubuntu-with-wubi.blogspot.ca/...rid-sleep.html
    http://superuser.com/questions/14472...te-w-dual-boot

    Just as in BIOS you had to go into BIOS to choose default boot of hard drive (which drive), CD/DVD, floppy, flash, with UEFI you also get added menu items in UEFI/BIOS to turn secure boot off, or turn just UEFI on or turn just BIOS/CSM mode on. Those will be all the folders or installs in the efi partition or from flash drive either BIOS or UEFI boot.

    Compatibility Support Module (CSM), which emulates a BIOS mode, when booting on affected laptops.

    Some users have posted their experiences at the end of their threads.
    Installing Ubuntu 12.10 x64 on Dell XPS 13 Alongside Windows from USB New user with Details post 10
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2108450

    [SOLVED] Can't install Windows 8 & Ubuntu in Toshiba Portege Z930 with explanation how by OP feb 2013
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2114290

    I do not like videos as I cannot follow along, but to see what you will do it may be worthwhile.
    Video
    UEFI Windows boot disk - not easy to understand but shows screens
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHOP3VY4qZM
    Dual-Boot Windows 8 and Ubuntu 12.10 (BIOS)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNCSbTyUzoM
    Legacy BIOS and UEFI AMI AptioMar 2012 - 20 MIn
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRMIvY7BiL4
    Acer Windows 8 Video on getting into UEFI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGiG1oljjZI
    Upgrade Gigabyte to UEFI (Windows)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-FcRUp2A-E
    Last edited by oldfred; May 1st, 2013 at 04:39 PM.
    For info on UEFI boot install & repair:
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295
    Please use Thread Tools above first post to close thread when/if answered completely.







  7. #17
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    Re: Best online / brick and mortar vedors for ubuntu laptops?


  8. #18
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    Re: Best online / brick and mortar vedors for ubuntu laptops?

    Adam Tudor: I have just gone through your posts. Here are my 'two cents':

    You should go for a laptop that doesn't have any OS pre-installed. Then you can install both Windows and Ubuntu on it or just Ubuntu. You can go for INTEL based laptops as Intel have great support for Linux. Others have too but Intel is a safe bet. However check the model and make here before you actually commit.

    Another thing, Linux is mostly 'do-it-yourself' thing.. are you ready for it? Linux is not Windows.

    Regards...
    "Evolution is Nature's way of issuing upgrades."

  9. #19
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    Re: Best online / brick and mortar vedors for ubuntu laptops?

    Quote Originally Posted by fantab View Post
    Adam Tudor: I have just gone through your posts. Here are my 'two cents':

    You should go for a laptop that doesn't have any OS pre-installed. Then you can install both Windows and Ubuntu on it or just Ubuntu. You can go for INTEL based laptops as Intel have great support for Linux. Others have too but Intel is a safe bet.
    thanks for the reply

    I was / and I AM looking for intel processor based laptops without any OS pre installed

    That has lead me to search HP, DELL, lenovo, asuz, Samsung, Acer etc ... i.e. the established suppliers

    AFAIK, I see that laptops with windows pre installed are the ones that ARE generally available and generally cheaper

    for a person buying just one laptop, it is availability + service + known devils + cost ..... rather than unique .... / niche products

    probably its the large volume thing that makes win pre installed laptops the most prevalent

    It's possible I have missed the laptops without any OS

    if there are some please recommend / suggest


    PS : luckily I was online to notice your reply and acknowledge, comment soon



    Quote Originally Posted by fantab View Post
    However check the model and make here before you actually commit.
    will do

    Quote Originally Posted by fantab View Post
    Another thing, Linux is mostly 'do-it-yourself' thing.. are you ready for it? Linux is not Windows.

    Regards...
    I think I am ready for it .... or I'd say I was eager to do it myself and thought that was the real fun part, then after a few threads I am worried that I may take on something I can't chew




    regards

    AT

  10. #20
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    Re: Best online / brick and mortar vedors for ubuntu laptops?

    Quote Originally Posted by kneedalz View Post
    thanks again

    unfortunately new egg does not ship internationally

    http://bit.ly/14Z9cd5

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