How to disable annoying auto-hide in global menus in Ubuntu 13.04?

[NBPX]

I would like to disable auto-hide of menus in the top pane or at least hide Window title definitely.

[gordintoronto]

System Settings, Appearance, Behavior. Auto-Hide has an on/off switch.

I don't know what you mean by, "at least hide Window title definitely." Perhaps you could describe it using different words?

[NBPX]

There's no such option. I don't want to stop the auto-hide of the launcher. I want stop the auto-hide of the menus in the top pane (global menus).

When the mouse is over that pane the menus are shown. When the mouse is out the Windows title is shown. This change is very annoying to me.

[gordintoronto]

What you want is a fundamental change to Unity.

[piedro]

This is not fundamental at all!

There is a setting to delay autohiding of the application menu up to 10 seconds in gconf settings.
Well, 10 seconds doesn't cut it but do you really think it would be a fundamental change to push this limit of 10 seconds just a little ... to maybe 20. Or 3600. Or just simply to infinite delay?

It shows a fundamental disrespect by the dev team to force an unwanted unity behaviour upon their userbase.

thx for reading,
piedro

[buzzingrobot]

Seems to me a design choice, not an effort to disrespect users. I'm sure some people like the auto-hiding, and some don't.

When developers and designers make choices, as they must, they know some users will like the result, some won't. Users are free to go elsewhere. That's the risk devlopers take.

[piedro]

... and I respect the design decisions of the developers ... but isn't a simple checkbox to disable it or just increase the delay the superior choice in ANY case? The acclaimed disrespect is not about deciding on a design concept - it is about showing no reaction at all to their userbase when many people are wondering, complaining and asking for a solution to an aspect that poses a problem for them ... And there are many threads showing exactly why this is a usability issue (not a simple matter of taste). I haven't seen any explanation arguing the opposite yet ...

How can it ever be better (whatever meaning you want to give the word "better" - doesn't matter) to have less choice when there's little effort involved and (as you rightly mentioned) users will go elsewhere ... I can't think of any rationale to justify ...

Honestly, have you ever read any thread or comment on the autohiding saying "I think this is nice, I like it"?
I haven't ... Aren't we proud that linux is all about choice ...

Last friday I had two customers very interested in the ubuntu desktop (scared by windows8) ... . They liked the functionality of the dash, they didn't like the look of it and I had to tell them that this is the only thing they will not be able to change. They loved the launcher. They thought global menu is a great idea and realized while we were talking that there was no menu at all. So I said "you just have to push the mouse over the top panel", the guy tried and immediatly snapped "I think I broke it somehow ... look there's two things stuck overlapping at the left ...". Maybe they wouldn't have decided for Ubuntu PCs anyway but certainly the autohiding menu reappearing on top of the title overlapping it was the nail in the coffin ... It's sad.

p.

[buzzingrobot]

I don't know that coding a way to disable a feature is, by definition, a superior choice. Configurability is not equivalent to good design.

Developers may also not want to take on the maintenance burden created by adding that kind of configurable option.

If I were a developer, I certainly would not see voices on forums as any kind of accurate yardstick of user opinion. They might, they might not. One of the weaknesses of FOSS is that developers don't have sales figures to tell them what's popular and what isn't.

Anecdotal evidence, like your "two customers" really doesn't mean much. It would if it was a common response in controlled tests of dozens and hundreds of people. Again, sadly, that's usually not possible in FOSS.

Nor is their failure to instantly figure out the menus "sad". FOSS designers and developers are people who make things, things they hope people will like. Then they give them away. If users don't like their efforts, c'est la vie. Until people like you and me start paying for their products, there is no chain of obligation.

[piedro]

I know about the FOSS weaknesses. That's why I am argueing.

We don't need evidence to make informed decisions (though I agree: it would be very nice if we always had some). Most of the times we are able to decide out of experience meaning we put together a string of anecdotal evidence like the couple I described and weave them together in some meaningful way - we do as best as we can. That doesn't mean we are right everytime but it works quite well most of the time (otherwise we wouldn't do it and the Bayesian theorem about reevaluating after every hint would be wrong ...) Since as you showed it's impossible to get hard evidence in many cases I am sure you have to do it too...

The point I don't get is: What's your agenda? Do you think we shouldn't discuss the outcome of the devs decisions?
Or do you think the autohiding is a good thing but do not want to tell us why? Even if there is no obligation to answer to the community, don't you think it's a respectful thing to do? (and if developers do not explain unpopular decisions there might be some justified criticism to be held?) Are you involved - then what's your opinion here? Well, you know where I am getting ...

Since you used those quotation marks on my anecdote: To me it is sad that the couple ordered a customized PC for their teenage son and ended up with an additional Win7 license in spite of all the choice there is ... but as you said: c'est la vie... (I still don't have to like it though)

best regards,
p.

[buzzingrobot]

Of course evidence is needed for informed decisions. Otherwise, they're uninformed.

Artificially inflating the significnce of anecdotes is still guesswork.

i don't have an agenda. I don't think the autohiding is important enough to get worked up about. I don't believe there is any reliable way to measure what users really think. All forum posts are by self-selected people. We just cannot know if they represent the opinions of the majority who do not post. Even if we did, devs have no obligation to pay attention. They're creative people who give us gifts. What right do we have to tell them what to do?

I am a user. I suppose that's a community, albeit pretty diaphonous. The real community in FOSS is the development community, whose interests do not necessarily complement the interests of users (who remain essentially consumers).

FOSS developers give away their products. For that I m grateful. But, that's it. I have no claim on them, nor they on me. I use what I like.

So, if the Unity devs want to hide that menu, it's their call, even if they are the only people who like it.