Problem after upgrade to 3.8

[kevdog]

Arch linux decision to upgrade from 3.6 to 3.8 really through me for a loop. It destroyed use of the cinnamon desktop, it wouldn't boot (likely because of certain installed packages from the AUR), and to the best of my knowledge the new gdm (Gnome display manager for 3.8) is still broken. This all happened when pacman asked me to upgrade libsoup and I said yes -- I had no idea this was going to pull down the new version of Gnome. Suffice to say, despite trying to spend hours rolling back the installation of packages, I couldn't get the system to startx. I later installed SLIM and then later installed LXDE and then later KDE. Despite not wanting to, I basically deleted all the cinnamon settings and such, and totally uninstalled gnome and removed as many libraries as I could. I then reinstalled gnome, and finally the system booted. Needless to say the Arch forums were not too friendly offering assistance, despite the numerous threads that were similar to mine. A few users through their posts point me in the correct direction.

Needless to say, I got Gnome3 finally booted and running, however in the process I discovered how good KDE was -- one desktop I haven't used in years (like 6-7 years). It's come a long way since 2007 -- a long way. After seeing the generic Gnome3, I think I might just stick with KDE and running the plasmoids for awhile. Wasn't so totally blown out of the water by LXDE, but in truth I used to run an open box setup years ago, and I'm aware OpenBox needs a lot of luv by the indivdual user before you could call it home.

I see posts asking whether the next release of Ubuntu (13.10) should run Gnome 3.8 vs 3.6. After seeing 3.8, I'd have to vote with just sticking with 3.6 and let the kinks be worked out.

[kevinmchapman]

So, in short, Arch's decision to upgrade Gnome from 3.6 to 3.8 broke a third party desktop (Cinnamon). You couldn't boot "likely because of certain installed packages from the AUR" (unsupported packages that you installed), and therefore you conclude that Ubuntu should not include 3.8?

Interesting "logic".

In the interest of balance, vanilla Gnome 3.8 and GDM working fine here.

[kevdog]

Must be response from arch forum member. Cinnamon aside does Gnome 3.8 really work for you? Its extremely laggy and gdm for me is still broke. I'm still using slim here. And if you discount my experience, there are many other similar posts made by various other users that report similar and other such issues. I'm glad it works great for you, however discounting other users problems just because it works for you is rather petulant don't you think? I'm still looking for performance solutions which are slowly trickling in on the arch forum website. Arch is a bleeding edge distro so I'm describing some of the problems associated with this type of installation. Ubuntu isn't quite so bleeding edge. I could only imagine if something similar were to effect Ubuntu users. These forums would be even more chaotic.

[kevinmchapman]

discounting other users problems just because it works for you is rather petulant don't you think?

I dismissed your problems because, in your own post, you suggest Cinnamon and AUR were at fault.

Needless to say, I got Gnome3 finally booted and running, however in the process I discovered how good KDE was -- one desktop I haven't used in years (like 6-7 years). It's come a long way since 2007 -- a long way. After seeing the generic Gnome3, I think I might just stick with KDE and running the plasmoids for awhile. Wasn't so totally blown out of the water by LXDE, but in truth I used to run an open box setup years ago, and I'm aware OpenBox needs a lot of luv by the indivdual user before you could call it home.

At no point do you state that the re-installed Gnome is not working, just that you dislike it.

I have certainly seen some posts on the Arch forums, so 3.8 is not without issue. For me, both GDM and Gnome work as well as ever, except for the usual requirement to increment version numbers in extensions and the ever-present memory leak which sees memory usage gradually increase (no practical impact, but visible if I open a task manager).

[kevdog]

So just to some up -- if you had to tell all Ubuntu users to manually increment version numbers in gnome 3 extensions -- that would be a problem. A memory link is always a problem eventually. Hopefully they will fix gnome3 since I'm a gnome user (although I really am liking the kde stuff right now). As far as the AUR -- I've got mixed feelings about the AUR. They are unsupported packages -- so they are unsupported. The problem however is that at least for me, I have to install a lot of packages that are in the AUR b/c they aren't in the main repositories. AUR packages can lead to breakage with updates as just witnessed, so its a lot of manual labor keeping track of things. This is definitely the arch way, however I'm not sure this is the Ubuntu way. I guess Ubuntu has much the same problem with ppa's, but in my experience the ppas don't seem to cause as many potential problems. Maybe other users experiences are different. So to some it up, I'm still of the opinion 3.6 should be the default gnome3 install version for Saucy Salamander. Things will definitely change in the next 6 months, so I'll probably change my opinion sometime in the future.

[mips]

AUR packages can lead to breakage with updates as just witnessed, so its a lot of manual labor keeping track of things. This is definitely the arch way, however I'm not sure this is the Ubuntu way. I guess Ubuntu has much the same problem with ppa's, but in my experience the ppas don't seem to cause as many potential problems.

PPA a dev can build a package for Ubuntu 12.10 for example and it should remain stable as long as 12.10 is around.
AUR packages have to be continually updated to keep up with the rolling nature of Arch.

Two different beasts.

[kevinmchapman]

To sum up from my end you believe that Gome 3.6 should be the default in future Ubuntu releases, and you have some issues with Cinnamon and AUR, neither of which are present in Ubuntu, and I'm struggling to see a connection...

[kevdog]

You should be a lawyer since you like to miscontrue statements that others make -- go back and re-read the original post. There is a debate about including either 3.6 or 3.8 with the next Ubuntu release. I stated I feel they should stick with 3.6 for the next release SS. And as far as statements with some issues with Cinnamon and the AUR -- yes I have them, however I (and many others) have issues with the currently supported 3.8 Gnome release from the officially supported repository as well.

[kevinmchapman]

In two paragraphs of the original post, I filtered out the following pertinent surmisal.

to the best of my knowledge the new gdm (Gnome display manager for 3.8) is still broken.

On that basis, then, 3.8 is not ready for use in the future? I'm not interested in the defensive statements, just the facts

[trent.josephsen]

You seem to be under the impression that problems with 3.8 on Arch will be problems with 3.8 on Ubuntu. That, to me, seems to be a completely unwarranted assumption without which your argument falls completely apart. Yes, they come from the same upstream, but Arch brings in the upstream essentially vanilla, whereas Ubuntu does more thorough integration testing and patching to make sure it works with every other package. Even just the compilation options can make a big difference.

If it was crashing regularly, or running the CPU to 100% while idle, or something like that, and it was a bug that was clearly in upstream and not related to any unsupported packages you installed on the side, that might be one thing; but it seems to me all your issues might be fixed by better integration testing and a few minor patches. Which might even be less work than what's necessary to stay on 3.6; I don't know.