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Thread: Mini Lubuntu (MLubuntu)

  1. #21
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    Re: Mini Lubuntu (MLubuntu)

    Great news

    If we don't know, but have energy enough, let us test what works!

  2. #22
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    Re: Mini Lubuntu (MLubuntu)

    This project is a great idea. I like the concept of having two different builds. One for older hardware and one for newer. Also, if possible, I think having a default( just works/the basics ) install and a "build-your-own" install within each build would be nice. I have some experience with and like Openbox as a WM and Razor-QT as a DE but I am totally open to using something else. It's great to gear this towards older/slower hardware but we should keep in mind folks with newer hardware that may want a very fast, lightweight, highly configurable system---like me. We can attract both older hardware and newer hardware if we can manage two builds!

  3. #23
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    Re: Mini Lubuntu (MLubuntu)

    Quote Originally Posted by sudodus View Post
    Great news
    Great news indeed
    She is busy working on a project right now and she will let me know once she is done.

    If we don't know, but have energy enough, let us test what works!
    We? don't know? you for sure know that if 'we' (at least me and you) want to do something, we will do whatever it takes to actually 'know'

    As for energy, you know me

    Yep, beside Melodie, there are other interested people but most likely the first alpha will be made by her.

    I added you by the way to the Launchpad team

  4. #24
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    Re: Mini Lubuntu (MLubuntu)

    Hi my friend and welcome to Ubuntu Forums

    Quote Originally Posted by dbyentzen View Post
    This project is a great idea.
    Glad you like it


    I like the concept of having two different builds. One for older hardware and one for newer. Also, if possible, I think having a default( just works/the basics ) install and a "build-your-own" install within each build would be nice. I have some experience with and like Openbox as a WM and Razor-QT as a DE but I am totally open to using something else. It's great to gear this towards older/slower hardware but we should keep in mind folks with newer hardware that may want a very fast, lightweight, highly configurable system---like me. We can attract both older hardware and newer hardware if we can manage two builds![/QUOTE]

    Have a read at this. I updated it last night.

    I am keen to have two builds, one for old hardware and one for new because I had a previous experience with Lubuntu when people started to use it even on their new hardware, not only the old ones. Worst case scenarios, if we couldn't do it for this version (1), definitely version (2) will have that. You know 14.04 is not yet ready and it is bad idea to have something based on 13.10 while we are 4 months away from having 14.04 up and running. Above all, my intention to have an LTS system as I am not interested at all to base it on 9 months release

    Thanks for posting and you are most welcome to join us!

  5. #25
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    Re: Mini Lubuntu (MLubuntu)

    Quote Originally Posted by amjjawad View Post
    I am keen to have two builds, one for old hardware and one for new because I had a previous experience with Lubuntu when people started to use it even on their new hardware, not only the old ones.
    I think you are overcomplicating things. Seeing as this is suppose to be something lightweight why not create a single spin. Have it use a new non-pae kernel so everybody can boot off it. If you need a different kernel just install it from the repos or have a post installation script where people can select what kernel they would like to change to.

    Just the other day I made manjaro respin with with kernel 3.12 for someone because their new laptop would simply not boot on with the default 3.8 kernel.

    Once you have the system installed the kernel can always be changed by the user. People these days battle to find distros with non-pae kernels and it's a pain for many people with older hardware.

  6. #26
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    Re: Mini Lubuntu (MLubuntu)

    Hi mips and good to see you here

    Quote Originally Posted by mips View Post
    I think you are overcomplicating things.
    That is definitely not my intention to make things harder. So, let's KISS (Keep It Simple and Short)!

    Seeing as this is suppose to be something lightweight why not create a single spin. Have it use a new non-pae kernel so everybody can boot off it.
    What do yo mean by "a new non-pae kernel"? are we, for example, taking about 3.11 but non-pae kernel? AFAIK, that might involve creating/using something different that what 'Ubuntu' is using by default. As you may know, starting from 12.10 Ubuntu and all its official flavours are using PAE Kernel. AFAIK, Crunchbang, which is based on Debain, is using NON-PAE Kernel for its 'For Old Hardware Build/ISO' with i486 Kernel:

    Code:
    crunchbang-11-20130506-i486.iso
    If you need a different kernel just install it from the repos
    Let me get this straight. If I am now using Ubuntu 13.10 and I'd like to have a NON-PAE Kernel, are you saying I need to download and install that from the official repertoires? is that even possible?

    or have a post installation script where people can select what kernel they would like to change to.
    But that will defeat the purpose of this system. The point is to boot the LiveCD of this system. If this system will 'not' use 'by default' a NON-PAE Kernel, then as long as the machine is NON-PAE machine (CPU), the LiveCD will never boot. Someone please correct me if I am wrong

    Just the other day I made manjaro respin with with kernel 3.12 for someone because their new laptop would simply not boot on with the default 3.8 kernel.
    New Laptop? that is definitely not the main target of this project. The 'main' focus on 'old' hardware.

    Once you have the system installed the kernel can always be changed by the user.
    Exactly, that is why this system needs to use a NON-PAE Kernel by default so it can be installed then the user is free to do whatever he/she wants which is the 2nd main focus on this project - give freedom and the choice to the users to build their own system the way they want/wish.

    People these days battle to find distros with non-pae kernels and it's a pain for many people with older hardware.
    Indeed, you are correct. That is why, I decided to go for this project on the first place.

    As of today, even Lubuntu can't help these machines with NON-PAE. Fake-PAE and other approaches? maybe but still that involved lots of steps and it is totally different when you have something that just work out of the box with NON-PAE Kernel

  7. #27
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    Re: Mini Lubuntu (MLubuntu)

    @sudodus

    Could you please confirm whether you can help to make OBI the default installer for this system?
    Yes, you read it correctly. I'd like to go for OBI as the default installer for this system!

    I trust your skills and I am sure this will be helpful. I have always promised to test OBI for you but never got the chance. I think the best way to make it up for you is to go with OBI as the default installer. So, what do you think? is that possible?

  8. #28
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    Re: Mini Lubuntu (MLubuntu)

    Quote Originally Posted by amjjawad View Post
    What do yo mean by "a new non-pae kernel"? are we, for example, taking about 3.11 but non-pae kernel? AFAIK, that might involve creating/using something different that what 'Ubuntu' is using by default. As you may know, starting from 12.10 Ubuntu and all its official flavours are using PAE Kernel. AFAIK, Crunchbang, which is based on Debain, is using NON-PAE Kernel for its 'For Old Hardware Build/ISO' with i486 Kernel:
    Yes, 3.11 non-pae. You would either have to compile your kernels or find a PPA that provides them.



    Quote Originally Posted by amjjawad View Post
    Let me get this straight. If I am now using Ubuntu 13.10 and I'd like to have a NON-PAE Kernel, are you saying I need to download and install that from the official repertoires? is that even possible?
    No, not possible. There are no non-pae kernels available in the repos for 12.10 onwards as far as I'm aware.



    Quote Originally Posted by amjjawad View Post
    But that will defeat the purpose of this system. The point is to boot the LiveCD of this system. If this system will 'not' use 'by default' a NON-PAE Kernel, then as long as the machine is NON-PAE machine (CPU), the LiveCD will never boot. Someone please correct me if I am wrong
    That's not what I meant. I meant have the livecd boot with a non-pae kernel and once the system is installed the user can change to a pae kernel if they have the need for one.


    Quote Originally Posted by amjjawad View Post
    New Laptop? that is definitely not the main target of this project. The 'main' focus on 'old' hardware.
    Some people might wanna use your distro on new hardware. If you are using an old kernel it might not work for them. I know you are not targeting new fancy laptops but some people might still wanna use your distro and would not be able to do so with an older kernel.


    Quote Originally Posted by amjjawad View Post
    Exactly, that is why this system needs to use a NON-PAE Kernel by default so it can be installed then the user is free to do whatever he/she wants which is the 2nd main focus on this project - give freedom and the choice to the users to build their own system the way they want/wish.
    That's what I've been saying but I think I've been misunderstood or did not make it clear enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by amjjawad View Post
    As of today, even Lubuntu can't help these machines with NON-PAE. Fake-PAE and other approaches? maybe but still that involved lots of steps and it is totally different when you have something that just work out of the box with NON-PAE Kernel
    Fake-PAE does not really seem like an option as people still have to jump through hoops to make it work. Short of finding a PPA with non-pae kernels you can add to your livecd or maintaining your own PPA a better option might be to look at Debian Testing or Debian Stable.

  9. #29
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    Re: Mini Lubuntu (MLubuntu)

    Quote Originally Posted by mips View Post
    Yes, 3.11 non-pae. You would either have to compile your kernels or find a PPA that provides them.
    Phill, former Lubuntu QA Team Leader (just like me, he stepped down/resigned from Lubuntu) was looking for someone to do exactly that as far as I can tell:

    Phill Whiteside:
    non-pae kernel has now been built, just waiting for download instructions it needs adding to an ppa.
    (17:06:08) hyperair: phillw: https://launchpad.net/~hyperair/+arc...ging/+packages <-- nonpae kernels are up
    (17:06:37) phillw: hyperair: what can I say? WoW!!!!
    Source for information

    I think, things are clear now to me
    As long as there is a Kernel, say it is living inside an PPA, one can use it with whatever Kernel he/she wants: 3.2, 3.8, 3.11, etc. I think that is the easier path.

    No, not possible. There are no non-pae kernels available in the repos for 12.10 onwards as far as I'm aware.
    Yes, that was confusing me but now, things are clear and make more sense, thanks

    That's not what I meant. I meant have the livecd boot with a non-pae kernel and once the system is installed the user can change to a pae kernel if they have the need for one.
    This is very interesting indeed. How exactly can I do that? any idea?


    Some people might wanna use your distro on new hardware. If you are using an old kernel it might not work for them. I know you are not targeting new fancy laptops but some people might still wanna use your distro and would not be able to do so with an older kernel.
    I see your point now. You are right. What if someone has a new machine and wants to try my system?

    So, to solve this, we need:
    That's not what I meant. I meant have the livecd boot with a non-pae kernel and once the system is installed the user can change to a pae kernel if they have the need for one.
    Correct?

    This is very interesting. If 'both' old hardware (the main focus on this project) and new hardware can be used with this system, this is really great. I definitely want to go that path

    This will actually 'save' my time and no need for another Spin/Build, correct? now, I guess I know what you meant about your first post:

    I think you are overcomplicating things.

    That's what I've been saying but I think I've been misunderstood or did not make it clear enough.
    Yes, it wasn't clear to me but thanks to you, I got it now


    Fake-PAE does not really seem like an option as people still have to jump through hoops to make it work.
    +1
    This is what I had in mind too. Newcomers will find this super hard for them. Some if not most don't even know what 'PAE' means!
    That is where the idea of this project has come from.

    Short of finding a PPA with non-pae kernels you can add to your livecd or maintaining your own PPA a better option might be to look at Debian Testing or Debian Stable.
    Not sure how Crunchbang (based on Debian) is doing it but it seems Debain are still supporting i486 Kernel which is NON-PAE Kernel and that is why Crunchbang was an option for those with old hardware + Bodhi Linux. Not yet sure what other systems are using NON-PAE Kernel by default?

    So, if Debian has that by default, it is good because there is no much difference between Debian and Ubuntu AFAIK.
    And, if we can have that on Ubuntu (PPA), so no need to use Debian's Kernel.

    But a Q here:

    Kernel on PPA? is that stable? I mean, will this cause any problem when upgrading for example? or it is the other way around?

  10. #30
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    Re: Mini Lubuntu (MLubuntu)

    Quote Originally Posted by amjjawad View Post
    @sudodus

    Could you please confirm whether you can help to make OBI the default installer for this system?
    Yes, you read it correctly. I'd like to go for OBI as the default installer for this system!

    I trust your skills and I am sure this will be helpful. I have always promised to test OBI for you but never got the chance. I think the best way to make it up for you is to go with OBI as the default installer. So, what do you think? is that possible?
    Yes - provided I get a working systems, I can make tarballs of them. And The OBI can install a system from the tarball.

    1. The kernel
    2. The software packages including desktop environment and application programs.
    3. System settings.

    Actually anybody can make a tarball from an installed system (that works). We must decide how to communicate the system.

    A. Who should have the master system, and how should it be distributed between the project participants?

    @amjjawad: Do you want to build and tweak the system?

    B. How to upload contributions (plans, suggestions, parts (software, tweaks of the system) and the whole system?

    I suggest that the whole system is communicated as a tarball (tarballs of different versions along the path of development).

    ps/
    You can test the OBI by installing a system from LubuntuCoreSaucy.tar.xz, which will give you a reference system with the standard Lubuntu Core 13.10 with the only tweak (extra feature compared to the mini iso), that the network is made portable.
    /ds

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