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Thread: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

  1. #61
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Quote Originally Posted by forrestcupp View Post
    I haven't read the entire thread, but if Ubuntu goes to Mir and Gnome goes to Wayland, what will happen if you want to install Gnome Shell in Ubuntu?
    If Ubuntu continues being Debian based all dependencies should be available, but at this point I don't know if that can be taken for granted.

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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Quote Originally Posted by lykwydchykyn View Post
    I think you greatly underestimate RH and Suse if you think they are irrelevant compared to Canonical. They've both been profitable companies for longer than Canonical has existed.
    I don't think I do. They have zero presence in the larger general market. They are irrelevant. Sorry.
    Linux: You reap what you tweak.

  3. #63
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Quote Originally Posted by VTPoet View Post
    I don't think I do. They have zero presence in the larger general market. They are irrelevant. Sorry.
    No need to apologize; I'm not offended, I just think you're wrong .

  4. #64
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Quote Originally Posted by VTPoet View Post
    I found the following curious:

    "The recent Mir announcement makes it a bit more urgent that we put our weight behind Wayland and help it reach its full potential."

    What does he mean by this? Why is it more urgent for Gnome to get behind Wayland? Tell me I'm wrong but I read (between the lines) something like spite, resentment and contrarianism? What difference does it make to Gnome's schedule that Ubuntu uses MIR? The way I read between the lines is as follows: Gnome now feels that they are in direct competition with Canonical. They want to be the defacto Linux desktop (and probably blame Unity for their current problems). The writer of the post probably thinks that if Gnome can establish Wayland before Canonical establishes MIR, then third party video driver support (for example) will flock to Wayland rather than MIR. Gnome's boat will be lifted, Canonical's will sink.

    For those who think competition in the Linux ecosystem is a good thing, I think we've got it -- a major competitive split between two big names. My feeling though is that Canonical will win. They've got the money and they're already years ahead of Gnome when it comes to expanding beyond the desktop. If Canonical says, once and for all, that it's going with MIR, and if Ubuntu is where the eyes are, Red Hat and Gnome can either cling to an irrelevant Wayland or swallow their pride. That's kinda' the way I read the tea leaves.
    I see it as a tacit admission that efforts on Wayland had been lagging, and they got caught with their pants down. If this event re-energizes them, and suddenly we have two well-built alternatives to X, I think it will ultimately be good for everyone.

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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Quote Originally Posted by forrestcupp View Post
    I haven't read the entire thread, but if Ubuntu goes to Mir and Gnome goes to Wayland, what will happen if you want to install Gnome Shell in Ubuntu?
    The possibilities I can think of are:

    - Canonical/Ubuntu has patches porting Shell to Mir, so you can just it.
    - Just fall back to X
    - Either Mir or Wayland is irrelevant so Shell will just work with Mir or Ubuntu will have Wayland.
    Last edited by JDShu; March 27th, 2013 at 03:47 AM.

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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    OK, well some things are going to be different in the immediate future. Like Mir by 14.04, possibly. With Gnome/RH fast tracking Wayland, maybe soon.

    What ever happens, I am confident linux will prevail and will continue to improve. Too many people are involved in developing it, to let anything catastrophic happen that can't be sorted out. Generally options are a good thing. Sometimes competition too.

    ;p
    One Psychiatrist's Definition of Insanity:"Knowing what one should do and doing differently"

  7. #67
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Quote Originally Posted by lykwydchykyn View Post
    No need to apologize; I'm not offended, I just think you're wrong .
    I agree with this bloke

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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Quote Originally Posted by VTPoet View Post
    I don't think I do. They have zero presence in the larger general market. They are irrelevant. Sorry.
    RedHat makes some of the most used Linux's around seeing how redhat had a Revenue of $1.13 billion 2012 vs canonica's Revenue around $30 million a year + RedHat is a major Developer of Linux Kernel Drivers Packages etc
    Redhat Also Gives the most to Linux Community as well http://community.redhat.com/ if it was not for them Linux may have been a dead fish in the water a long time ago

  9. #69
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Red Hat might have done more for Ubuntu than Canonical themselves.

    Canonical is nowhere to be seen in the Kernel development:
    http://go.linuxfoundation.org/who-writes-linux-2012

    Canonical made a contribution to X.org/Wayland, and it was deemed newsworthy:
    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTEwNTc

    Canonical contributed very little to Gnome:
    http://www.neary-consulting.com/docs/GNOME_Census.pdf

    And these have been three key elements of Ubuntu always.

    Now look at this: http://community.redhat.com/contributions/

    I think we should be thankful to Red Hat, Suse, etc for making Ubuntu great.

  10. #70
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Quote Originally Posted by tartalo View Post
    If Ubuntu continues being Debian based all dependencies should be available, but at this point I don't know if that can be taken for granted.
    Quote Originally Posted by JDShu View Post
    The possibilities I can think of are:

    - Canonical/Ubuntu has patches porting Shell to Mir, so you can just it.
    - Just fall back to X
    - Either Mir or Wayland is irrelevant so Shell will just work with Mir or Ubuntu will have Wayland.
    Thanks, guys. I believe the dependencies for both will probably be satisfied in the repos. But I'm just wondering how it will work practically. Both Mir and Wayland are going to completely take the place of X, right? And right now, X is started before LightDM, GDM, KDM, or whatever, right? So if you install Ubuntu, it's going to start Mir before it loads up LightDM, where you choose your Desktop Environment. So then Mir is already started, and what happens if you choose Gnome Shell?

    They're going to have to think these things through, or it's going to be a major mess. Having choices is only good when it's not detrimental to the overall experience.
    Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You. - Dr. Seuss

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