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Thread: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

  1. #121
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Honestly I dont know why some people are hating Mir so much,if Canonical pulls it off great,another alternative to the aging X.org,it was about time Linux community make an alternative for it,Wayland,Mir,more alternatives is more competition and better features.If Wayland cant compete and ultimately loses so be it,some people in the Linux community believe that every single open source project must survive indefinitely,that is not always good,I always wondered as to why Linux community didnt start working on X.org replacement earlier.Linux must evolve and that means some things are meant to be changed.Whether other distributions will adopt Mir it remains to be seen,I am sure some will be stubborn enough to refuse to adopt it even if it turns out to be a brilliant piece of software.I like innovations and Mir and Unity on QT/QML,along with mobile/tablet/desktop compatible OS is very interesting to me,but haters are going to hate,and being a Linux user for about 12 years now I have seen my share of dinosaur attitudes of some people in the Linux community,they simply refuse to go along with innovations,still clinging to their very old ways.They are afraid of losing their precious toy because it will no longer be cool to use Linux if many people use it,you can see that happening even now as such people switch to Gentoo,Arch and similar distributions because they are for "advanced users" and Ubuntu and other "user friendly" distributions are for "beginners".It is not likely that Ubuntu will ever become a completely closed source project,that would make no sense,what Ubuntu will hopefully become is an integrated multipurpose OS that grows and is available for all devices,for personal and business use.I hope Canonical will succeed with Mir,Unity on QT/QML and multipurpose OS because that is where the future is.Dinosaurs that refuse to change will end up like Nokia that refused to adopt Android and is now on a steady decline.There is nothing wrong with an OS that can run on mobile phones,tablets,desktops and servers,in fact it is brilliant and I hope they succeed

  2. #122
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    The fact that Wayland is slow before Mir was announced shows that lack of competetion and option makes 'one' slow/dependant/not motivated/etc.
    Its important for the display server to be able to adapt to many things 'physically' in the future. When can I put displays on my refrigerator so that I can keep tracks of th things inside the fridge? I don't need a full size motherboard inside the fridge, I just need something like raspberry pi, and some advanced monitor on the fridge (OLED, transparent, plasma or whatever works). In fact getting a stock phone just to do that is great, but it will need stock OS that can do lots of things, and Ubuntu is headed that way.

    The future for me is that, almost everything will have display on it, from tables, fridge, walls, even simple electrical (light, fan, stuff) switch will use a display system (assuming that a small 5x5 cm display can control all the lights, fans, ventilation, aircond, valves, in the house/office). Can Wayland do that? Can X do that? Can Mir do that? Can it do it beautifully and smooth? There might not be anymore physical keys in keyboards, its all a display sytem with touch input, you just touch them instead of hitting them. It might sound to scifi, but thats one of the possible feature. I dont see or hear Wayland going to do something about this, Wayland probably will just be a desktop display server, instead of an all-around you can put anywhere.

    It seems Mir is going that way, seemless intergration between display output and touch input (well its not just Mir, but the OS as well). Ubuntu and Mir is going to break the touch input barrier, not counting Android of course they did a great job in that, but they just have different phylosophy compared to desktop Linux.

    I can see that I can just put one Ubuntu device in the kitchen and be able to have multiple touch display on the fridge, table top, cabinets and stuff. One Ubuntu device in my office, have multiple displays to it, have multiple inputs to it, and many other functions. Instead of an OS for a tablet, server, phone and desktop, it can be an OS that can run the house or office environments. Assuming people will not put in an overzealous A.I. into it and give birth to SkyNet.

  3. #123
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Nobody I know of is "hating Mir", unless "hate" means "everyone isn't dropping their plans and years of work to move to a display server project which was just announced out of nowhere". If you don't understand the reasons why non-Ubuntu projects aren't jumping up and down to support it, here is a breakdown of the reasons from a KDE developer:

    http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...ir-in-kubuntu/

    I invite you to read and contemplate some of these reasons and point of view rather than just conclude that all non-ubuntu free software developers are small-minded haters.

  4. #124
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Quote Originally Posted by lykwydchykyn View Post
    Nobody I know of is "hating Mir", unless "hate" means "everyone isn't dropping their plans and years of work to move to a display server project which was just announced out of nowhere". If you don't understand the reasons why non-Ubuntu projects aren't jumping up and down to support it, here is a breakdown of the reasons from a KDE developer:

    http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...ir-in-kubuntu/

    I invite you to read and contemplate some of these reasons and point of view rather than just conclude that all non-ubuntu free software developers are small-minded haters.
    I didnt mean people with objective concerns like the author of the blog post you mention,I meant a portion of Linux users,try reading comments on various articles on Mir around the Internet,plenty of hate,from Phoronix to other Linux related websites.Not that I am saying they dont have a right to voice their own opinion,they do but some are hating Mir because they apparently have a need to bash Canonical and Ubuntu just for the sake of it,they dont even bother to wait until the Mir is published to see how the whole situation will play out,and then make comments with some arguments.

  5. #125
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Harper View Post
    I didnt mean people with objective concerns like the author of the blog post you mention,I meant a portion of Linux users,try reading comments on various articles on Mir around the Internet,plenty of hate,from Phoronix to other Linux related websites.Not that I am saying they dont have a right to voice their own opinion,they do but some are hating Mir because they apparently have a need to bash Canonical and Ubuntu just for the sake of it,they dont even bother to wait until the Mir is published to see how the whole situation will play out,and then make comments with some arguments.
    People don't bash Canonical "just for the sake of it". They/we bash them because they pulled out a dirty trick that one would expect only something like Microsoft or Apple to do. I mean, developing a display driver is fine, and developing a competing display driver is fine, but the way the presented it, after lying publically to everyone, is just wrong. Especially considering Mir's purpose and limitations.
    The whole thing is so patently infantile, so foreign to reality, that to anyone with a friendly attitude to humanity it is painful to think that the great majority of mortals will never be able to rise above this view of life.
    ~Sigmund Freud

  6. #126
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    lying?

  7. #127
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Quote Originally Posted by smellyman View Post
    lying?
    Announcing that they'll work on Wayland and that NVidia is willing to work with Wayland but secretly developing Mir, and then suddenly announcing "just kidding, we weren't actually planning on using Wayland at all".
    The whole thing is so patently infantile, so foreign to reality, that to anyone with a friendly attitude to humanity it is painful to think that the great majority of mortals will never be able to rise above this view of life.
    ~Sigmund Freud

  8. #128
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stonecold1995 View Post
    Announcing that they'll work on Wayland and that NVidia is willing to work with Wayland but secretly developing Mir, and then suddenly announcing "just kidding, we weren't actually planning on using Wayland at all".
    Didn't they also publish some falsehoods about Wayland in their original post explaining why they were going to develop Mir? From what I've read, that didn't go over well either.

    I should mention that I'm also fine with it if they want to develop their own display server, but I think they owe it to the community to be a bit more up-front about they are doing, and not try to mislead people.

  9. #129
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    saying you didn't eat a cookie when in fact you did is lying.

    I guess I lie all the time when I change plans

  10. #130
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    Re: Mir vs. Wayland & effect on Linux "Ecosystem"?

    Changing plans wasn't lying, but spreading falsehoods about Wayland was. They later apologized, but I'm still seeing the same memes floating around as if they were fact.

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