Who wants to test MIR?

[cariboo]

The whole philosophy behind Linux development is if you don't like the way something works, either change it, if it is open source, or develop something new if it isn't. If Linus hadn't been dissatisfied with the way Minix worked, we wouldn't be where we are now.

I see nothing wrong with Canonical/Ubuntu wanting to develop their own display server, if Wayland development was where Ubuntu expected it to be by this time, we'd all be testing it now, but as it is, it is just a curiosity that some of us play with and discard, as it really isn't ready for everyday usage.

To quote from here

Ubuntu — possibly the most popular distribution of the open source Linux operating system — is striking out on its own. Canonical, the commercial company that oversees Ubuntu, has made a habit of building new Linux components from scratch, moving away from tools built and used by the larger open source community. That’s rubbing many Linux developers and users the wrong way, and now Canonical may have finally alienated these hard-core open sourcers.

I added emphasis to what I think is the most important point in the quote, as developing something new is the way Ubuntu works. Many aren't happy about this, but take Unity for instance, there was a huge amount of hate being shown here on the Forum, when it was first released, but now for the majority of users, it's just another desktop environment they can use or not, if and when the choose.

I guess what I'm really trying to say, if you want a traditional style distribution, use it, if you want something that may be on the cutting edge, stick with Ubuntu. The LTS version will be supported until 2017, and with the updates in the point releases it will be usable until then on even the newest hardware.

[Stinger]

@ cariboo907
I appreciate what you are trying to say, open source = freedom to choose as With MIR; if you don't want it don't choose it.
As we doing a little 'walk on the wild side' I'd like to add that the Ubuntu experiment in my case started with the Breezy Badger and ended with the Maveric Meercat, ever since it has been an uphill battle.
I found a short rest in Ubuntu Gnome Remix 12.10 too.
I like community driven projects or projects were the community has influence in where the projects are heading.
But in my opinion Canonical is sacrificing the community to pursue its business.

[ventrical]

The whole philosophy behind Linux development is if you don't like the way something works, either change it, if it is open source, or develop something new if it isn't. If Linus hadn't been dissatisfied with the way Minix worked, we wouldn't be where we are now.

I see nothing wrong with Canonical/Ubuntu wanting to develop their own display server, if Wayland development was where Ubuntu expected it to be by this time, we'd all be testing it now, but as it is, it is just a curiosity that some of us play with and discard, as it really isn't ready for everyday usage.

@cariboo907

Thanks for clarifying this point. I tried (to my best) to give wayland/weston a good honest try during Precise Beta Testing. I was enthusiastic about wayland as I am about MIR now. I did most of the tests .. and then it just sort of .. well.. died. Unity , while at first having a hard time with it during Natty Narwhal, has become the most reasonable alternative for an effervescent desktop experience. For me , Unity has been a Fantastic Voyage despite whatever bugs or failings it has had. It just keeps getting better .!! Currently , on my Dell D 3100, the current xorg and compiz work just great. It is snappy , punchy and effervescent. Kudos to Mark Shuttleworth. Mission accomplished! If adopting MIR means keeping Unity as the premier desktop then I will put all I can into testing it.

Regards,
Ventrical

[ventrical]

@ cariboo907
I appreciate what you are trying to say, open source = freedom to choose as With MIR; if you don't want it don't choose it.
As we doing a little 'walk on the wild side' I'd like to add that the Ubuntu experiment in my case started with the Breezy Badger and ended with the Maveric Meercat, ever since it has been an uphill battle.

But Ubuntu has always been resilient in it's recovery tools, unlike a lot of other distros. It always seems to heal itself. MIR and UNITY are like a bridge over troubled waters and I personally think that it is going to be a real success. And who knows .. with MIR even GNOME 3 may be back in the fold. One never knows eh?

Regards,
Ventrical

[cariboo]

@Stinger, it looks to me like any debate on MIR has been lost in all the hoopla about the change in UDS and the debate on a rolling release vs the status quo, but rest assured that the community does have a say in what is going on. As with all large projects though, there has to be someone that has the final say, Linus is that person in kernel development, and Mark Shuttleworth does the same here. Not everyone will be happy with their decisions, but at least the project doesn't get stalled while the debate goes on.

[EgoGratis]

@ EgoGratis
As much as I'd like to believe you, I just cannot, Ubuntu's previous projects shows another story.
Ubuntu TV, who uses it ? Ubuntu for android, well.. ? Unity / Compiz, no other distro than Ubuntu seems to care and more and more compiz-plugins got broken because of the Unity-plugin.
Then there is Upstart as MrJJ has explained earlier on this thread:


I just cant see that MIR would be any different.
When Canonical launched MIR, the least they could do was to come up with a reason that (as MrJJ so beautifully put it) does not challenge the common sense.

It's not that simple. Unity might not be the best shell that could be made but if you compare it with GnomeShell, Modern UI or Apple desktop PC i think it has a shot. Compiz was ditched by all mayor distros and we Ubuntu users could enjoy Compiz few more years and i can't hold that against Canonical (some most surely do and their alternative most often fall short for my taste and needs). It looks like Compiz will not be ported to Wayland and Unity Next will probably not use it anymore that probably is true but main Compiz developer said clearly Canonical did not break Compiz in any way to make it less compatible with other distros and to be honest majority of other distros ditched Compiz a while back.

Stuff like Ubuntu TV who else is competing or trying to compete in this area with GNU/Linux? About systemd i think ATM a lot of users has an (strong) opinion on the matter but if you would ask the same users to give some facts how this decision is affecting their lives they would just not know how to answer this question. Probably something like i want faster boot time. Well Ubuntu boots pretty darn fast! Lightdm looks like it does the job just fine and today i showed one of my friends how the background image at login screen/prompt changes switching the users and i got positive feedback...

About Mir i think it's too soon to judge. First we have to start using it then we will be able to judge. But if it will turn out the way Lightdm, Unity (with Compiz), boot time with upstart... Then i guess it won't turn out too bad? But sure some will say thing like Mutter is lighter but does it have control panel? That thing i like to use with Compiz yes and i don't care if other don't like it i do.

We will just have to wait and see. It's too soon to judge ATM and i think the real focus should be on drivers model.

[EgoGratis]

And we expect Canonical to provide us TVs, mobile devices and desktop PCs and servers with GNU/Linux don't we? There is still a lot to do for Canonical to be able to provide this too us.

When this happens then i think we should judge how good Canonicals does it's job. If it will only be for money or will there be some nice ideals know how built in the products/services we get and we want and yes there is nothing wrong if questions are raised about the path taken to achieve the goal or to judge the goal but i agree the sky isn't falling if Canonical wants to try to built it's own display server a lot of different display servers will probably be made in near future using Wayland protocol for example and things are not that standardized in post Xorg world and that is the main point why Xorg is being replaced it's because interested parties wants more freedom and less of "mandatory rules" that display server enforces. The downside is less consistency but because of that you will be able to do much more and you will still be able to be consistent if you will decide to follow some guidelines on how to achieve consistency.

[cariboo]

I have to wonder, how this will affect Steam on Linux, as the last figures I saw, a pretty significant number of Steam users were running Ubuntu. In the short time the service has been available Linux usage has almost caught up to those using OSX.

[EgoGratis]

If Ubuntu will be used on Valve game console then i guess we will just have to wait and see what display server will be chosen by Valve, hardware (driver) makers and Ubuntu and why.

P.S. But let's say it will turn out great and to be something rather in favor of open than closed and let's say it's a success story. That would bring millions of users to Linux and a bunch of new developers too!

[ventrical]

I see nothing wrong with Canonical/Ubuntu wanting to develop their own display server, if Wayland development was where Ubuntu expected it to be by this time, we'd all be testing it now, but as it is, it is just a curiosity that some of us play with and discard, as it really isn't ready for everyday usage.

They are still working on getting the windows to minimize and maximize. So even with all that backing I can only ask why all of this is happening so late in the game.


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