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Thread: Linus Torvalds: I will not change Linux to “****-****** Microsoft”

  1. #41
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    Re: Linus Torvalds: I will not change Linux to “****-****** Microsoft”

    Quote Originally Posted by mamamia88 View Post
    [b]And paqman what is broken about bios?
    Just about everything. It doesn't support booting of modern operating systems on modern-sized disks (ie: >8.5GB), for a start. That's a pretty crucial weakness.

    The only reason we've been able to continue using BIOS for so long is because individual vendors have hacked it ruthlessly. That's not a solution that can or should be extended indefinitely, however. There's only so long you can keep adding hacks to coax a broken system into working.

    It's way past time for a system designed for modern systems that have things like USB and big disks.

    Honestly I couldn't care less if my pc uses bios or uefi as long as it boots up properly.
    Me neither. Dealing with this kind of thing is a technical issue for OEMs. How often do you delve into BIOS/UEFI really?

  2. #42
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    Re: Linus Torvalds: I will not change Linux to “****-****** Microsoft”

    Matthew Garretts explanation of the patch he submitted.
    http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/23400.html

    Its worth noting that the issue being discussed now is not about booting linux on a secureboot machine. its about how you trust third party binary kernel modules (eg Nvidia drivers).

  3. #43
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    Re: Linus Torvalds: I will not change Linux to “****-****** Microsoft”

    Hey, guess what Apple did, to make a computer that runs perfectly with their OS? They conceived and designed their OWN machine specifications; why doesn't the Linux community do the same thing, and stop all this self-entitled complaining about why companies that make hardware to support *specific* software, doesn't allow their non-supported software to run?

    Did anyone promise you it *would*? You may well have bought the PC or Mac; you may well own it, but you bought it with your free will, knowing full well that Linux is a hackers paradise, and that you'd have to experiment a little... or a lot - Microsoft, Apple, Dell, HP... whoever, do not owe the Linux community one single thing - they make hardware that works with "X" version(s) of Windows, and Windows that works with "X" hardware devices.

    If I buy a car garage, can I complain that my bus won't fit inside it? Yes, I *can* complain, but the garage was not designed for it.

    If Canonical can release pointless Ubuntu phones, maybe they'd be better off making computers instead, seeing as there are so many people complaining that their hardware is not supported - were you promised it WOULD be?

    In fact, if there are SO many Linux fans worldwide, many of whom have, collectively, hundreds of millions of dollars - if it means so much to them, why don't they pool their resources and start a company? I'll tell you why - it's not a good business model, there's not enough consistency in Linux releases, there's too much transience and the wider world uses Windows and Macs. There is not enough high quality software on Linux, to the level of that which Adobe, Apple etc release - there may be FOSS *alternatives*, but I'd prefer efficiency and the ease of use of a paid product, than the alternative of a headache caused by a "It's free - fix it yourself" approach.
    Last edited by nikonian; February 27th, 2013 at 04:58 PM.

  4. #44
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    Re: Linus Torvalds: I will not change Linux to “****-****** Microsoft”

    Quote Originally Posted by ssam View Post
    Matthew Garretts explanation of the patch he submitted.
    http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/23400.html

    Its worth noting that the issue being discussed now is not about booting linux on a secureboot machine. its about how you trust third party binary kernel modules (eg Nvidia drivers).
    almost never but then again most manufacturers gimp their bios so there really aren't any valuable options to change.
    Whoever came up with the phrase "There is no such thing as a stupid question" obviously never had the internet.

  5. #45
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    Re: Linus Torvalds: I will not change Linux to “****-****** Microsoft”

    They conceived and designed their OWN machine specifications; why doesn't the Linux community do the same thing,
    This is what Canonical is trying to achieve and look at the way that all these friendly FOSS people have spat hate at Ubuntu.

    If people choose to buy a Windows machine, then that is their choice. But many then expect to easily install a Linux distribution on it. When was that ever easy? Put to one side UEFI and Secure Boot. Think instead about Microsoft using up the four allowed primary partitions or setting the disk as a dynamic disk. It is not easy for a non computer educated person to install any Linux distribution. Unless it is on a blank disk.

    We should be thankful that some people are doing something to make it possible to install Ubuntu or other Linux distributions on this hardware. Of course, those of us who are fanatical in our beliefs can continue to be so.

    Regards.
    Last edited by grahammechanical; February 27th, 2013 at 05:35 PM.
    It is a machine. It is more stupid than we are. It will not stop us from doing stupid things.
    Ubuntu user #33,200. Linux user #530,530


  6. #46
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    Re: Linus Torvalds: I will not change Linux to “****-****** Microsoft”

    Quote Originally Posted by nikonian View Post
    *snip*
    Since the beginning, you've been able to install compatible operating systems on the hardware from any vendor. Apple is working with an Apple OS on Apple hardware. That's a different beast altogether. On the flip side, you have all of these hardware companies that are essentially forced into abiding to Microsoft's ridiculous secure boot, and it's completely understandable why these companies succumb to those terms. If 98% of your sales are based on Windows, and you disagree with what Microsoft is doing, it's an easy calculation to come to: Abide by Microsoft, increase my changes of staying in business substantially.

    While you do bring up some valid points that are worth noting, under no circumstances do I agree with them in the slightest order of magnitude. I know I'm a small blip on the radar, but when I purchase hardware, I purchase hardware that I know will work with my operating system of choice. If *insert-company-here* chooses to lock out alternative operating systems, I won't support them. I know my lack of support for their gear won't put them out of business, but that's not my goal. My goal is to support the companies out there that deserve it. A company that supports only Microsoft 100% of the way is not an organization I want to be associated with in the slightest.
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  7. #47
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    Talking Re: Linus Torvalds: I will not change Linux to “****-****** Microsoft”

    Go Linus!

  8. #48
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    Re: Linus Torvalds: I will not change Linux to “****-****** Microsoft”

    Hi

    It is Linus again with strong words but he is right - I want to have full control of my hardware/software and if you look at past security problems with stolen certificates or hacked certificate authorities nobody can assure me that this do not happen again. Stux, flame demonstrated what is possible with people which are skilled enough to play with such technologies and nobody knows how long it would take that such altered keys get revoked. But the problems with UEFI are old as it be - Coreboot could be a much better replacement for a BIOS but Microsoft and other big players are interested that UEFI get used. They have much more control over the hardware as in the past.
    Last edited by Gyokuro; February 27th, 2013 at 07:45 PM.

  9. #49
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    Re: Linus Torvalds: I will not change Linux to “****-****** Microsoft”

    With all respect, I feel many Linux users are blinded by their demands for "freedom" of the hardware. Computers are manufactured specifically to use Windows or Mac OS X; if there was a demand for Linux PCs, they would make them, and they don't - doesn't that tell you something?

    You can approach this debate from any angle you want to push your agenda, but the fact is simple; most people DO NOT CARE about Linux, and why would the hardware manufacturers spend money - LOTS of it - just to keep a tiny minority happy?

    Wake up Linux.

  10. #50
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    Re: Linus Torvalds: I will not change Linux to “****-****** Microsoft”

    Quote Originally Posted by nikonian View Post
    With all respect, I feel many Linux users are blinded by their demands for "freedom" of the hardware. Computers are manufactured specifically to use Windows or Mac OS X; if there was a demand for Linux PCs, they would make them, and they don't - doesn't that tell you something?

    You can approach this debate from any angle you want to push your agenda, but the fact is simple; most people DO NOT CARE about Linux, and why would the hardware manufacturers spend money - LOTS of it - just to keep a tiny minority happy?

    Wake up Linux.
    Bah your pro Microsoft stance, it goes beyond redundant

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