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Thread: Brainstorming - why can't the live media offer a version downgrade?

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    Brainstorming - why can't the live media offer a version downgrade?

    I need to do a great deal of follow-up on this but I began a while back at Launchpad Answers in hopes that a member of the installer team would comment:

    https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu...uestion/217832

    Particularly the second reply is exemplary of the general lack of knowledge surrounding the fact that ubiquity does provide both upgrade and replace options if only one Ubuntu based release is recognized on the existing drives.

    I've personally found these options to be almost bullet proof .... they're in no way related to a "release-upgrader" version upgrade or to the old alternate image style upgrades.

    I don't totally understand how it works but the basic outlines of the design spec say:

    Ubuntu {same version} on it. ...
    ● Reinstall Ubuntu {same
    version} [maps to reuse]
    Documents, music, and other
    personal files will be
    kept. Installed software will be
    kept where possible. System-wide
    settings will be cleared.
    Or:

    Ubuntu {older version} on it. ...
    ● Upgrade Ubuntu to {this
    version} [maps to reuse]
    Documents, music, and other
    personal files will be kept.
    Installed software will be kept
    where possible. System-wide
    settings will be cleared.
    I can tell you that the results are quite different than what you'd expect from a distro-upgrade via the update manager. There are no old config files to deal with but typically browser profiles are saved along with everything that's NOT a hidden "dot" file or folder in /home.

    Additionally no older kernels seem to be retained so you end up with a truly fresh install which results in a much cleaner upgrade or replacement, but you retain all of the stuff you don't want to have to restore from a back-up. But always remember that the data you'll lose is the data you don't have backed up!!!!

    So I'm just wondering why ubiquity can't offer a downgrade, eg; Replace Ubuntu 12.10 with Ubuntu 12.04

    Does anyone else think this is worthy of a brainstorm idea?

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    Re: Brainstorming - why can't the live media offer a version downgrade?

    Ubiquity is not an app i can trust: too many issues, act like a russian roulette.
    If the brainstorm place is able to make the buzz for rewriting ubiquity, then we might use it.
    It should offer to install from scratch, upgrade and also downgrade of course.
    Wonder which other distro(s) is/are using ubiquity and how things goes for them.

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    Re: Brainstorming - why can't the live media offer a version downgrade?

    I aksed this question over a year ago and there was also some chatter about a system restore.

    For the most part ubiquity has been very solid for me. I have had some real doozers with precise, ocelot and quantal but they always work out.

    I'm just asking .. but wouldn't it be easier to extend Lucid for another 3 years of LTS support so current users (and noobs) can make realistic adjustments to the comming changes? I mean ... isn't this "Linux for Human Beings" and not "Linux for Executive Toy PlayThings" ?
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    Re: Brainstorming - why can't the live media offer a version downgrade?

    I would think any kind of downgrade would require btrfs to be finished and shipping as default, so you can just snapshot back to a previous state, at that point it'd be relatively simple.

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    Re: Brainstorming - why can't the live media offer a version downgrade?

    Quote Originally Posted by castrojo View Post
    I would think any kind of downgrade would require btrfs to be finished and shipping as default, so you can just snapshot back to a previous state, at that point it'd be relatively simple.
    it even can be simpler: allowing to overwrite a greater version, aka doing an installation from scratch

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    Re: Brainstorming - why can't the live media offer a version downgrade?

    That's what the installer does already when you reinstall, but it it still sucks to wait the 10 minutes or whatever for that to happen, a nice rollback/snapshot would be instant.

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    Re: Brainstorming - why can't the live media offer a version downgrade?

    When are we to see BTRFS recommended for widespread usage?
    Is it safe now to convert from ext4 to BTRFS?

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    Re: Brainstorming - why can't the live media offer a version downgrade?

    Quote Originally Posted by castrojo View Post
    That's what the installer does already when you reinstall, but it it still sucks to wait the 10 minutes or whatever for that to happen, a nice rollback/snapshot would be instant.
    I was going to ask if the procedure you're talking about is not totally different than what I'm talking about, but I think you just answered that

    I don't understand the technical aspects but just today I decided to install Lubuntu Quantal over an Ubuntu-GNOME-Remix Quantal that I'd been using to perform benchmark testing of window managers (mutter - metacity - muffin - marco) on hardware that won't run Compiz+llvmpipe. The existing installation size was:

    Code:
    lance@lance-VIA-desktop:~$ df -H
    Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
    /dev/sda5        41G  6.0G   33G  16% /
    udev            485M  4.1k  485M   1% /dev
    tmpfs           197M  852k  197M   1% /run
    none            5.3M     0  5.3M   0% /run/lock
    none            493M   91k  493M   1% /run/shm
    none            105M     0  105M   0% /run/user
    /dev/sr0        726M  726M     0 100% /media/lance/Lubuntu 12.10 i386
    So I used the Lubuntu Quantal live media to reinstall and I was offered these options:

    2013-01-15-173637_1366x768_scrot.jpg

    I chose the selected "Reinstall" and all data was saved

    But going from Ubuntu-GNOME-Remix to Lubuntu notably saved my .mozilla profile even though Firefox was NOT reinstalled by default, so it's not fool-proof

    I assume that the "reuse" process reinstalls only those apps available on the live media

    It's very common to see a warning regarding the fact that not all apps could be reinstalled/restored just before you're offered the options to reboot or continue running the live DE ...... but the spec does say, "Installed software will be kept where possible."

    I just don't see why this can't work for a "downgrade"

    Oh, and look at the new size:

    Code:
    lance@lance-VIA-desktop:~$ df -H
    Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
    /dev/sdb5        41G  5.0G   34G  13% /
    udev            485M  4.1k  485M   1% /dev
    tmpfs           197M  799k  197M   1% /run
    none            5.3M     0  5.3M   0% /run/lock
    none            493M     0  493M   0% /run/shm
    none            105M  8.2k  105M   1% /run/user
    No cruft at all! She's a clean. mean fightin' machine with no data loss

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    Re: Brainstorming - why can't the live media offer a version downgrade?

    Everything other than a rollback is error-prone and the process to recover from a broken downgrade is anything but human-friendly.
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    Re: Brainstorming - why can't the live media offer a version downgrade?

    Quote Originally Posted by MacUntu View Post
    Everything other than a rollback is error-prone and the process to recover from a broken downgrade is anything but human-friendly.
    Calling this procedure a downgrade (or an upgrade for that matter) is probably somewhat inaccurate. In those cases where either a reinstall or upgrade is offered ubiquity does "map to reuse".

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