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Thread: Basic Security Wiki (I can't leave "good enough" alone...)

  1. #21
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    Re: Basic Security Wiki (I can't leave "good enough" alone...)

    Quote Originally Posted by haqking View Post
    So are you saying there shouldnt be a wiki on the basics of where to begin in being proactive about securing your Linux system?

    And there shouldnt be a wiki on where to begin with checking logs ?

    Because it is all out there already if people want to learn ?

    I disagree, but we are all welcome to our opinions.

    The wiki is community based and can be edited, and people can choose to read it or not, there have also been already been numerous thanks from new users who found it useful.
    I am doubt that does an newcomer of Ubuntu/Linux (as you said) understand what the system logs said when s/he is reading. They even do not know how to read a normal system logs. But you ask them to read, nonsense.

    Linux SysAdmin always ask others to read logs but do not teach them how to identify the malicious activities. What does it look like? What does it mean? It is because they do not know too, I guess.

    Sometimes, system logs cannot provide you useful information as the malicious activities may be same as the legal one.

    Meanwhile, the said article is giving out a misleading information to newcomers (as you said). They may treat this as a bible. So, I suggest not to write this kind of article anymore.

    The wiki should be covered all true and technical as well as up-to-date information about the infosec but not only the "BASIC". Please DO NOT classify your readers as NEWBIES or NEWCOMERS. As I said, when they read/know more, they are no more newbies or newcomers.

    Samiux

  2. #22
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    Re: Basic Security Wiki (I can't leave "good enough" alone...)

    Quote Originally Posted by samiux View Post
    Please DO NOT classify your readers as NEWBIES or NEWCOMERS.
    I disagree strongly. A clear message with a few simple security rules for beginners, is very, very useful. Because most of them won't take the trouble to read long, in-depth articles. TL;DNR.

    We must take human nature as it is...

  3. #23
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    Re: Basic Security Wiki (I can't leave "good enough" alone...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pjotr123 View Post
    The "basic" wiki says fine and interesting things (kudo's for your efforts!), but in my opinion it goes beyond the needs of Linux beginners who just want to have a safe desktop for general use....

    For those ordinary desktop users, a few simple rules are enough, I think:
    1. immediately install security updates when you're notified;
    2. do not install antivirus, as you *really* don't need it in Linux;
    3. enable the firewall (sudo ufw enable) without further tweaks;
    4. stick to the official repo's as much as possible, and only deviate from them when strictly necessary and with much caution;
    5. keep Java disabled by default, and only enable it when needed;
    6. tweak Wine a bit to make it more secure;
    7. and most important of all: use your common sense. The biggest security threat is generally found between keyboard and chair.

    If only we could hammer that simple message between the ears of Linux beginners, a lot of harm would be prevented....

    In my opinion, the "basic" wiki currently contains a lot of advanced tweaking for people with enhanced security needs, who need a much higher level of security than the ordinary home user....
    Quote Originally Posted by samiux View Post
    I am doubt that does an newcomer of Ubuntu/Linux (as you said) understand what the system logs said when s/he is reading. They even do not know how to read a normal system logs. But you ask them to read, nonsense.

    Linux SysAdmin always ask others to read logs but do not teach them how to identify the malicious activities. What does it look like? What does it mean? It is because they do not know too, I guess.

    Sometimes, system logs cannot provide you useful information as the malicious activities may be same as the legal one.

    Meanwhile, the said article is giving out a misleading information to newcomers (as you said). They may treat this as a bible. So, I suggest not to write this kind of article anymore.

    The wiki should be covered all true and technical as well as up-to-date information about the infosec but not only the "BASIC". Please DO NOT classify your readers as NEWBIES or NEWCOMERS. As I said, when they read/know more, they are no more newbies or newcomers.

    Samiux

    Feel free to contribute.
    Backtrack - Giving machine guns to monkeys since 2006
    Kali-Linux - Adding a grenade launcher to the machine guns since 2013

  4. #24
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    Re: Basic Security Wiki (I can't leave "good enough" alone...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pjotr123 View Post
    I disagree strongly. A clear message with a few simple security rules for beginners, is very, very useful. Because most of them won't take the trouble to read long, in-depth articles. TL;DNR.

    We must take human nature as it is...
    I strongly disagreed.

    When they read the said "BASIC" infosec information, they will treat this as bible and sticked to it. However, it is not enough. Their systems can still be compromised, I mean desktops and servers for both.

    Do you know how many zombies or say botnets out there in the wild? They are not only Windows boxes but also includes Linux and other systems. Why this happened? It is because they read and learn the said "BASIC" security information. They even do not know that their systems are infected.

    Live is hard! So, you need to read and learn more about true and technical as well as up-to-date information.

    Samiux

  5. #25
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    Re: Basic Security Wiki (I can't leave "good enough" alone...)

    Quote Originally Posted by haqking View Post
    Feel free to contribute.
    I think discussion is also a kind of contribute.

    Samiux

  6. #26
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    Re: Basic Security Wiki (I can't leave "good enough" alone...)

    I disagree
    If the argument is that the wiki is only basic and you can still get hacked than, yes, you are entirely correct. But I'm confused as to why that's a problem.

    You state they will treat it as if it were all there is to security. I doubt it, but even if they did, if they spend the time setting up Apparmor profiles they'll be quite a lot safer than many users. So while advanced attacks will still work (attackswith second stage kernel exploits) many won't, like a typical java exploit.

    I'm on a phone unfortunately so I'm reluctant to spend the time on this. But based on the topics I have seen on more basic security forums including this one the wiki addresses the most commons questions with the most common answers.

    The goal is to have those questions answered without a user needing to make a topic.
    Last edited by Hungry Man; December 27th, 2012 at 03:03 PM.
    sig

  7. #27
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    Re: Basic Security Wiki (I can't leave "good enough" alone...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hungry Man View Post
    I disagree
    If the argument is that the wiki is only basic and you can still get hacked than, yes, you are entirely correct. But I'm confused as to why that's a problem.

    I'm on a phone unfortunately so I'm reluctant to spend the time on this. But based on the topics I have seen on more basic security forums including this one the wiki addresses the most commons questions with the most common answers.

    The goal is to have those questions answered without a user needing to make a topic.

    I have already answered at #24.

    Samiux

  8. #28
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    Re: Basic Security Wiki (I can't leave "good enough" alone...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hungry Man View Post
    You state they will treat it as if it were all there is to security. I doubt it, but even if they did, if they spend the time setting up Apparmor profiles they'll be quite a lot safer than many users. So while advanced attacks will still work (attackswith second stage kernel exploits) many won't, like a typical java exploit.
    However, the said article is not talking about Apparmor or alike. Therefore, I said we need true and technical as well as up-to-date infosec information.

    Samiux

  9. #29
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    Re: Basic Security Wiki (I can't leave "good enough" alone...)

    Quote Originally Posted by samiux View Post
    However, the said article is not talking about Apparmor or alike. Therefore, I said we need true and technical as well as up-to-date infosec information.

    Samiux
    This threads OP is about the Firewall page.

    The Basic Security Wiki mentions and links to further about apparmor as found here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BasicSecurity#AppArmor

    Your original post was about the firewall page not covering Gmail ports which it does.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Basic Security Wiki (I can't leave "good enough" alone...)

    Quote Originally Posted by haqking View Post
    This threads OP is about the Firewall page.

    The Basic Security Wiki mentions and links to further about apparmor as found here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BasicSecurity#AppArmor

    Your original post was about the firewall page not covering Gmail ports which it does.
    My discussion is switched to the article "DidIJustGetOwned" since #8.

    For the post about Firewall, it is just an example to point out that if the newcomers (as you said) do not understand networking and TCP/IP, they will be in trouble. So, I agreed with Pjotr123 that a simple firewall rules is enough. It is because there are many opening ports (that you do not know) even you restricted the rules tidy.

    For the Apparmor, it is just an example that Hungry Man stated and I refer to it only.

    My main discussion is targeted to the article namely "DidIJustGetOwned".

    Samiux
    Last edited by samiux; December 27th, 2012 at 05:08 PM. Reason: fix typo

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