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Thread: Very real bugs in Raring

  1. #41
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by QIII View Post
    If I had time, I'd offer to help maintain those things. Unfortunately, I am selfish and would rather pay my mortgage, car payments, dinners out, kid's college tuition ...
    And yet, I bet the OP is psyched you have enough time to venture an opinion about his opinion...

  2. #42
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    I've enjoyed the rotating cube for many years, and anyone who's used it knows it looks much better with the 3D window effect.

    And as the OP noted, I've discovered that support for many details of the rotating cube have fallen off with each release of Unity since it premiered in 11.04.

    And I got over it.

    As much as I enjoyed showing it off to friends, in retrospect that's the only benefit it ever provided for me. I respect that it may have some utilitarian value for others, but for me what I really need is a good way to switch between desktops, and the built-in method is quick, simple, and keyboard-configurable enough that I don't really miss not using the cube anymore.

    I went to USD in May to participate in the QQ cycle. Interesting times. Saw a lot of what goes on to make Ubuntu. I can tell you, it's not slack.

    No one there wants to kill any aspect of the cube. They just have other priorities, and if something in Unity's evolution loses compatibility with a niche plugin like 3D windows, they just have to accept it and keep moving forward.

    We live in a world of limitations, and no software project has unlimited resources. Given what they have to work with and what they want to achieve, the 3D window plugin just isn't something they can spend money on right now.

    But this is Linux. The source is available. Anyone who feels strongly enough about it can dive in and make any changes they want. That's what free software is all about.

    I appreciate the time and money Canonical and the rest of the community devotes to giving me a free OS. I make suggestions, but when faced with a multimillion-dollar gift like Ubuntu I don't make demands. I appreciate what they provide, and am willing to provide for myself anything they don't.

  3. #43
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv View Post
    The resources are there. Cannonical has them. No Compiz, no Unity, so they are bound to keep everything in very good working order.
    No, Canonical has rather limited resources. I think they've gotten criticism for everything they've tried to do to make enough money to pay their employees (Launchpad, Landscape, Ubuntu One, Ubuntu One Music Store, enabling proprietary apps in the Ubuntu Software Center, Amazon integration, affiliate revenue in the web browser or the music player, etc.).

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv View Post
    What's there to maintain? A simple 100-300 kb file doesn't have to be watered,
    Compiz is not just a few hundred kilobytes. One particular example of the maintenance needs is that GNOME 3.4 dropped gconf support for keyboard shortcuts. It was necessary for Compiz to switch from the deprecated gconf to gsettings, but nobody stepped up to do that work for Unity 2D. And no, permanently sticking with GNOME 3.2 isn't a good answer either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv View Post
    The devs are anonymous. They get paid, so they listen, or lose the job. If you take SolusOS, we know who does the coding, who keeps them in the server, Ikey. We know, who keeps the files in a server in Mint, Clem. In Ubuntu, the devs are anonymous, just like in Redhat.
    Actually, it's possible to see exactly who did what in most open source development. Not only is the source open, but so are the commit logs. For instance, visit https://launchpad.net/compiz and click Browse the code. Click Changes.

    Also, quite a bit of the work done in Ubuntu is done by volunteer contributors who are not paid by Canonical or even anyone at all for that work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv View Post
    I've sat in many board meetings and its always about profit and nothing else.
    How much have you paid for Ubuntu? Do you really feel like you are getting ripped off?

  4. #44
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Its becoming nice now, as more guys are getting on board. The continuous news-about-crashes is a headache, which is there in Precise too. Don't know, whether it is a problem to Mark S, or he is using Mageia for his daily work.

    Quote Originally Posted by rg4w View Post
    I've enjoyed the rotating cube for many years, and anyone who's used it knows it looks much better with the 3D window effect.

    And as the OP noted, I've discovered that support for many details of the rotating cube have fallen off with each release of Unity since it premiered in 11.04.
    And I got over it.
    No, I haven't. It is not the beauty of the 3D effect, but also the quickness of changing workplaces. 3D cube is still there in Raring, but if you enable 3D windows, you get black sides and blurred movement, if you can call that a movement.

    And, that's bug--bad coding, bad thinking, lack of real interest in one's own WM and the compositing manager.

    No one there wants to kill any aspect of the cube. They just have other priorities, and if something in Unity's evolution loses compatibility with a niche plugin like 3D windows, they just have to accept it and keep moving forward.
    Who are "they?" The guys, who work for Cannonical for pay, or the guys, who are willing to help out the "development" of the Ubuntu base, but has to go along with the board decision?

    That niche plugin 3D windows has more to give than the Unity's evolution. This "evolution" is going forward developing itself by killing off useful applications, such as Unity 2D and parts of Compiz, their own WM & CM. Unity 2D, with its launcher and Dash was first to be designed, and now a must-have for Unity 3D to work, but lines of code could be moved to other files, hiding the fact. If Ubuntu had dropped Unity 2D in QQ, then, why are the files of Unity 2Dhanging around in QQ and RR?

    Is it true, that Unity 3D was the evolution of Unity 2d, and now the dad is killed off?
    If you look at the screenshots, you'd notice that the Gnome-wm is working as the window manager, and Unity's launcher and Dash is present in that environment. The Gnome-wm has all the abilities of a 3D desktop, and Compiz is called in, when needed (compiz --replace).

    It doesn't matter, what is your desktop environment, Gnome-wm, Metacity, Lxde, Xfce, the Unity launcher and the Dash works, which makes the Unity 3D redundant. So, the Unity 2D files had been changed, not to let the launcher and dash to come out, without the top panel. Someone had found the danger, and Unity 2D was killed off, even though most parts of Unity 2D is still needed, and always be needed, if Unity 3D is to work. (I noticed this as soon as the news about dropping Unity 2d was announced before QQ was released.)

    Now, don't just take my word for this. Take a Precise installation, copy the 2 files from /usr/in, take your QQ or RR and delete the same-name 2 files, and paste them and click and see what you get. To make the experiment even better, rename the unity file in your /usr/bin for this session only.

    We live in a world of limitations, and no software project has unlimited resources. Given what they have to work with and what they want to achieve, the 3D window plugin just isn't something they can spend money on right now.
    Keeping a small file in th e repos is not a big deal and doesn't cost more than few cents/annum. But, when these files trouble, they are killed off.

    But this is Linux. The source is available. Anyone who feels strongly enough about it can dive in and make any changes they want. That's what free software is all about.
    Are you sure, this is free software? Try to change a .so file, and you'd notice, how free it is. Try to install something, and you get a whole bunch of hangers on coming in. Sure, you can delete them later. You can't uninstall them, as that whole bunch would want to go, but you can physically delete them.

    I appreciate the time and money Canonical and the rest of the community devotes to giving me a free OS. I make suggestions, but when faced with a multimillion-dollar gift like Ubuntu I don't make demands. I appreciate what they provide, and am willing to provide for myself anything they don't.
    Cannonical is business company, which is profit oriented, and nothing, my friend, is given free from a business company. In a business, anything that won't make money would be dropped, even if its a charity.

    (I suppose, you know that charity is tax-deductible, so brings in more than that's given? The money spent on charity is eventually paid up by the government, meaning you and me, in tax-deductions, but that's another story. )

    As Ubuntu is using a unstable application as its window and composite manager to make Unity 3D work, then Unity would be always unstable, if the Compiz developers won't make that Compiz stable.

  5. #45
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Whoa. Oh look, my stop. This is where I get off...

  6. #46
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by NHclimber View Post
    Whoa. Oh look, my stop. This is where I get off...
    Have a good journey!

  7. #47
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    it is pre beta, of course there will be issues the development has only just started.

    If you feel there are bugs file reports and they may or may not be agreed with and worked on. Rotating discussion here is like shout about them in the wilderness.
    This account is not active.

  8. #48
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv View Post
    And, that's bug--bad coding, bad thinking, lack of real interest in one's own WM and the compositing manager.
    What did you find in your review of the source for Unity and Compiz led you to the opinion this is easy to address?

    And if it's easy, did you submit the patch while you were at it?

  9. #49
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    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by rg4w View Post
    What did you find in your review of the source for Unity and Compiz led you to the opinion this is easy to address?

    And if it's easy, did you submit the patch while you were at it?
    Oops, people are getting angry.

    Maybe, you could tell us, how come the same Compiz (0.9.x) works with all the plugins in Arch, Debian, Fedora, Gentoo (Sabayon, Calculate etc), OpenSuse, Slackware etc?

    Why is it that in Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Ubuntu-Gnome remix and any other QQ based or RR based distro, the 3D windows plugin doesn't work? The Animation-addons cannot be even seen?

    I mentioned Debian, meaning Wheezy, and Ubuntu is based on Debian Wheezy, but the same application works very well with Debian, while it doesn't work with QQ or RR, even if you take off everything Unity!

    So, is it a bug, a system-wide one, or not?

    Jeremy, your Gnome-Remix under QQ has the same bugs. It doesn't appear to have anything Unity there, but it has the same problems. But, take Debian and (add Gnome 3.6) the problems go away.

    In this "development" fervour, certain libraries had been changed, so not to allow certain packages (Ubuntu Precise ones) to be installed. These libraries cannot be opened in Gedit. The newer version, say libsomething.so has a higher number, and won't allow a simple Ubuntu application of a lesser number to be installed. That is, the "developed" higher number libsomething.so is lacking the abilities of the same libsomething.so with the lower number.

    When you upgrade your vehicle, you'd always want to have space for your beloved grandma in it, don't you?

    Have a good day, guys, and stop worrying or getting angry.

    By the way, I should've written "bugs in Ubuntu", rather than "bugs in Raring."

    Take care!

    Ch

  10. #50

    Re: Very real bugs in Raring

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv View Post
    Maybe, you could tell us, how come the same Compiz (0.9.x) works with all the plugins in Arch, Debian, Fedora, Gentoo (Sabayon, Calculate etc), OpenSuse, Slackware etc?
    Likely because they use an older 0.9.x & not this
    compiz (1:0.9.8.0-0ubuntu1) quantal-proposed; urgency=low

    * debian/control, debian/rules:
    - enable gles on armel and armhf
    - use dh-translations rather than custom code

    [ Sam Spilsbury ]
    * Enable OpenGL ES building
    - Refresh debian/patches/workaround_broken_drivers.patch
    - Remove non-ported plugins from compiz-plugins
    - Add FindOpenGLES2.cmake to compiz-dev

    [ Timo Jyrinki ]
    * New upstream release.
    - Code to make compiz work on GLES. This includes several changes
    to the compiz API. (LP: #201342) (LP: #901097) (LP: #1004251)
    (LP: #1037710)
    - Draft first 0.9.8.0 NEWS and bump VERSION
    * debian/patches/compiz-package-gles2.patch:
    - Remove, obsoleted by the upstream GLES work
    * Disable plugins that don't work on pure GLES on armhf/armel:
    - bench, firepaint, mblur, showmouse, splash, showrepaint, td, widget

    -- Sebastien Bacher <seb128@ubuntu.com> Fri, 31 Aug 2012 22:59:50 +0200
    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv View Post
    In this "development" fervour, certain libraries had been changed, so not to allow certain packages (Ubuntu Precise ones) to be installed. These libraries cannot be opened in Gedit. The newer version, say libsomething.so has a higher number, and won't allow a simple Ubuntu application of a lesser number to be installed. That is, the "developed" higher number libsomething.so is lacking the abilities of the same libsomething.so with the lower number.
    You may want to spend a bit more time reading than writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdslv;
    That niche plugin 3D windows has more to give than the Unity's evolution.
    I guess there's no discounting people's perceptions, as weird as they may be.

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